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Plaything48 · May 23, 2004, 07:28 am

Is it right to force your children to believe in your faith?

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 07:47 am

Yes.

A parents job is to guide thier off spring. And whilst said off spring linves under your roof, they should follow your lead. Now, after they move out... well you have to let them fly on thier own, and if they choose to change beliefs, do not hold that against them. You don't have to like it, you can let them know this, but you cannot hate them for such.

tusaki · May 23, 2004, 08:03 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio
Now, after they move out... well you have to let them fly on thier own, and if they choose to change beliefs, do not hold that against them

But more often than not, they [the children] don't change their views later in life. After all, why should you believe something else after hearing it over and over again for ~18 years. This is why most christian children become christians again, same goes for muslims, hindu's, jews, buddhists etc.

I think it would be more plausible, although impossible, to teach them of all religions, and let them choose one for themselves, if any, later in life.

But as I said before, this is impossible, since the parents will obviously (or at least, more often than not) not be so open minded.

Paavo · May 23, 2004, 08:19 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Plaything48,
Is it right to force your children to believe in your faith?

Of course not.

This is what I dislike about religion, people never get to make a choice. If your religion is the right one, wouldn't everyone "find" it for themselves? This is why religion is so absurd, of course everyone will believe in the invisible dude in the sky, if they're told so on a daily basis since day 1! I could "teach" my child about a talking kangaroo every day until he moves out, and damnit, he would keep believing it -- especially when ~60% of his friends and family believes it. It's just stupid IMO.

mrmufin · May 23, 2004, 11:08 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Plaything48,
Is it right to force your children to believe in your faith?

How can beliefs be forced? Parents can present their beliefs, opinions, faith, concerns, etc., but such presentation is no guarantee that such beliefs will be adopted by their children. Parents may even compel their children to behave in such a fashion as though some particular beliefs have been adopted, but are ultimately unable to control the thought processes and conclusions of their children. Since faith tends to be reserved for things which elude immediate and/or impartial verification and children are sentient persons, things like beliefs, faith, and opinions are terribly difficult to impose on others, even children.

My parents could no more effectively force me to believe (or conclude) that "deity X is real because religion Y, which we participate in, says so" than they could force me to believe that "pistachio is the best Baskin-Robbins ice cream flavor because Time magazine, which we subscribe to, says so."

Regards,
mrmufin

Plaything48 · May 23, 2004, 12:05 pm

Firstly I'm talking about children, who have less control over what they believe. Secondly, parents can force a child to take part in the religion. I think you knew what I meant by 'forcing religion on a child', but nevertheless argued as though you didn't.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 12:36 pm

Parents MUST guide thier childrens lives, thats thier jobs. And one of those area's is religious beliefs.

Pooeypants · May 23, 2004, 12:44 pm

So if we had parents who guides their children to religious that tells them it is okay and good to blow yourself up...is that still right?

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 12:51 pm

Pooey... do you have children? Just curious.

Pooeypants · May 23, 2004, 01:47 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
Pooey... do you have children? Just curious.

I'm 19 years old, take a wild guess.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 02:47 pm

Ahh well then I guess its hard for you to understand where I am comming from.

Your children.. you guide them, you are thier teacher. And as such, you teach them your values, your religion. If you don't what is your purpose in thier lives?

Gorgo · May 23, 2004, 02:52 pm

If you teach your children to think, then they won't need religion.

No, you can't force religion, per se, but you can stifle their thought process so much that they feel they need these kinds of insanities.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 02:53 pm

Gorgo, thats your opinion of religion. Can you try to have a discussion about others beliefs without all the inflammatory rhetoric?

I doubtit but it would be nice to see you not act like every other athiest on the web.

Pooeypants · May 23, 2004, 03:56 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
Ahh well then I guess its hard for you to understand where I am comming from.

Your children.. you guide them, you are thier teacher. And as such, you teach them your values, your religion. If you don't what is your purpose in thier lives?

I think you're mistaking something, I'm not saying you should teach them religion, infact, you should teach your children a bit of each religion so they learn more and hopefully be wiser. To eliminate prejudice we must fight with knowledge, so I suppose you should teach your children your religion and that of others too. And then let them decide which is the right faith.

PS You spelt "their" wrong four times so far, can't help it, I'm a nasty spellchecker.

Pooeypants · May 23, 2004, 03:57 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
Gorgo, thats your opinion of religion. Can you try to have a discussion about others beliefs without all the inflammatory rhetoric?

I doubtit but it would be nice to see you not act like every other athiest on the web.

What are all the other [u]atheists[/b] like? Please share with us your impression.

Paavo · May 23, 2004, 04:30 pm

Mr Vicchio, let's say I had a kid (which I don't, yet at least).
I wouldn't "teach" him/her about my atheism, I'd love to get the kid to figure it out for him/her self.
If my kid asked me "Daddy, is there a god?", I'd say "I don't believe in that, but a lot of people do", and help him/her get some information on the religions of the world.

Teaching your values, as you said, is something that comes automatically somewhat, right? But religion is not like that IMO, you can choose not to brainwash (couldn't find another word, no offense meant) your child with your religion.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 04:33 pm

Slam religion as if its a myth followed by simple people unable to think for themselves. Perhaps a stereotype, but its a common trait of the atheist on line in forums.

Pooey, if you taught your child a little about each religion... that would require you know a little about each religion yes? And since you need to know a little about each religion, how do explain why yours is the one you follow?

I think you have a very quaint and idealistic of childrearing. You can try that, but I think you will just end up with a confused kiddo that doesn't know what to do.

"yes my 9 year old son, here, learn today about this religion, become a citizen of the world.." That thought makes me... shudder.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 04:34 pm

You can guide your child through your religoin, to follow it, to obey its tenents, and still respect and explore other ideas.

Gorgo · May 23, 2004, 04:35 pm

I see you slamming what you think is irrational thought. Why should I be more polite than you. I didn't call you an idiot, I called superstition superstition.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,
Slam religion as if its a myth followed by simple people unable to think for themselves. Perhaps a stereotype, but its a common trait of the atheist on line in forums.

Mr.Vicchio · May 23, 2004, 04:48 pm

And I say Jesus is the Son of God, and not supersitition and my children, till they turn 18 will have to deal with that as how the household runs.

May 23, 2004, 07:28 am	#1 (permalink)
Plaything48 Igneous Magma Location: London baby, yeah! Posts: 198	Is it right to force your children to believe in your faith? A man has two reasons for doing anything --- a good reason and the real reason. Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular.

May 23, 2004, 07:47 am	#2 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Yes. A parents job is to guide thier off spring. And whilst said off spring linves under your roof, they should follow your lead. Now, after they move out... well you have to let them fly on thier own, and if they choose to change beliefs, do not hold that against them. You don't have to like it, you can let them know this, but you cannot hate them for such. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 12:05 pm	#6 (permalink)
Plaything48 Igneous Magma Location: London baby, yeah! Posts: 198	Firstly I'm talking about children, who have less control over what they believe. Secondly, parents can force a child to take part in the religion. I think you knew what I meant by 'forcing religion on a child', but nevertheless argued as though you didn't. A man has two reasons for doing anything --- a good reason and the real reason. Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular.

May 23, 2004, 12:36 pm	#7 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Parents MUST guide thier childrens lives, thats thier jobs. And one of those area's is religious beliefs. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 12:44 pm	#8 (permalink)
Pooeypants Volcanic Erupter Location: England Posts: 5,610	So if we had parents who guides their children to religious that tells them it is okay and good to blow yourself up...is that still right? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

May 23, 2004, 12:51 pm	#9 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Pooey... do you have children? Just curious. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 02:47 pm	#11 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Ahh well then I guess its hard for you to understand where I am comming from. Your children.. you guide them, you are thier teacher. And as such, you teach them your values, your religion. If you don't what is your purpose in thier lives? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 02:52 pm	#12 (permalink)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	If you teach your children to think, then they won't need religion. No, you can't force religion, per se, but you can stifle their thought process so much that they feel they need these kinds of insanities.

May 23, 2004, 02:53 pm	#13 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Gorgo, thats your opinion of religion. Can you try to have a discussion about others beliefs without all the inflammatory rhetoric? I doubtit but it would be nice to see you not act like every other athiest on the web. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 04:30 pm	#16 (permalink)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	Mr Vicchio, let's say I had a kid (which I don't, yet at least). I wouldn't "teach" him/her about my atheism, I'd love to get the kid to figure it out for him/her self. If my kid asked me "Daddy, is there a god?", I'd say "I don't believe in that, but a lot of people do", and help him/her get some information on the religions of the world. Teaching your values, as you said, is something that comes automatically somewhat, right? But religion is not like that IMO, you can choose not to brainwash (couldn't find another word, no offense meant) your child with your religion.

May 23, 2004, 04:33 pm	#17 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Slam religion as if its a myth followed by simple people unable to think for themselves. Perhaps a stereotype, but its a common trait of the atheist on line in forums. Pooey, if you taught your child a little about each religion... that would require you know a little about each religion yes? And since you need to know a little about each religion, how do explain why yours is the one you follow? I think you have a very quaint and idealistic of childrearing. You can try that, but I think you will just end up with a confused kiddo that doesn't know what to do. "yes my 9 year old son, here, learn today about this religion, become a citizen of the world.." That thought makes me... shudder. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 04:34 pm	#18 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	You can guide your child through your religoin, to follow it, to obey its tenents, and still respect and explore other ideas. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 23, 2004, 04:48 pm	#20 (permalink)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	And I say Jesus is the Son of God, and not supersitition and my children, till they turn 18 will have to deal with that as how the household runs. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?