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PhanthomOps · May 24, 2004, 07:01 pm

Nono:

Would this apply ??

Absence of Proof, is not Proof of Absence????

Nono · May 24, 2004, 07:18 pm

Fits fine.

PhanthomOps · May 25, 2004, 09:24 pm

Nono:

I thought you might agree with that.

However, as I stated earlier in this thread, because I do have a belief in God, my view is simply:
My time will come one day at God's pleasure. Not that I am anxious to die, but I would like to be with my Lord & Savior.

**Pooeypants** · May 26, 2004, 07:02 am

*rubs hands* Valhalla it is for me then.

Mr.Vicchio · May 26, 2004, 07:53 am

Nono, there is one case, where a womans brain was intentionally turned off, I mean all three known measurements of brain activity stopped, the brain reached 60degrees F.. and she had a very vivid NDE when there was no Brain activity whatsoever...

That's one I find compelling, though by no means "proof" how about, intriguing evidence for the true skeptic wanting to know more?

Nono · May 26, 2004, 02:58 pm

Mr.Vicchio: "There is one case, where a womans brain was intentionally turned off, I mean all three known measurements of brain activity stopped, the brain reached 60degrees F.. and she had a very vivid NDE when there was no Brain activity whatsoever."

Can you substantiate that? I don't ask this in a challenging way but because I'd be interested in looking it up.

Mr.Vicchio · May 26, 2004, 03:14 pm

For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

PhanthomOps · May 26, 2004, 10:48 pm

Pooeypants:

I thought you were more the Atlantis or Star Gate type :) :)

Mr.Vicchio - Hey I would be interested also

Mr.Vicchio · May 26, 2004, 10:53 pm

Read the post I put before yours, thats the pertinant part with the link to the WHOLE story of this ladies NDE.

May 26, 2004, 11:39 pm

I think death is going to cause me to have a really bad day sometime in the future.

GreatWyrm of Babylon · May 27, 2004, 01:57 am

Well, if you assume most people are doing it right, it is a stupidity contest.

Samildanach · May 27, 2004, 08:34 am

The way I look at it is I don't remember anything before I lived. Therefore I will return to the same state as I was before I was infused with life in this incarnation.
Somehow I got here once, it may be possible to do it again, after all so far as far as I'm concerned I have a 100% success rate, after all I'm here.
I will be a bit annoyed if the whole Jesus thing is true. In fact I won't be just annoyed, I'd be livid....after all, all God had to do was give us definitive proof of his existence and everyone would have faith. As nothing is impossible for God in theory providing uncontradictable proof should be easy.

what is more likely however is either, you become nothing again, or this is all one really big video game.
I hope so, I might be respawned somewhere else. : )

PhanthomOps · May 29, 2004, 01:01 am

dave654:
Quote: "I think death is going to cause me to have a really bad day sometime in the future."

Let's look at it as a good day, and hopefully far, far in the future.

GreatWyrm:
Quote: "Well, if you assume most people are doing it right, it is a stupidity contest."

???????????????????????????

Samildanach:
Quote: "I will be a bit annoyed if the whole Jesus thing is true. In fact I won't be just annoyed, I'd be livid....after all, all God had to do was give us definitive proof of his existence and everyone would have faith. As nothing is impossible for God in theory providing uncontradictable proof should be easy."

Exactly what proof are you looking for???

May 29, 2004, 01:12 am

Actually, my experience in the Army and Martial Arts has helped me reconcile myself to the fact that I will die some day. I've given the subjec much thought since it was a very real possibility that I could have died at an early age because of my occupation.
I do not look forward to dying but am not afraid of it. If you saw Band of Brothers, or Twelve-o-clock High, two characters mentioned that fighting in a war is reliant on soldiers accepting the fact that they are already dead. Not literally, but reconciled to the fact that death is just around the corner. With this in mind, one is able to function without living with the stress normally associated with thoughts of dying.
Even after leaving the Army, I've maintained this realization that I could go at any time. There have been several occasions when this allowed my to do things others looked upon as amazing when they seemed routine to me.
Also, contemplating on what happens after our earthly demise is pointless. NOBODY knows what happens next. As Confucious once said, and I paraphrase, talking about the metaphysical makes me sleepy. If there is an afterlife, cool, the adventure continues. If there is nothing, cool, you won't know any different. If there is an afterlife, I fail to understand how we would have a consciousness anything remotely similar to what we have now since all our brain functions rely on bio-electric functions. An afterlife would be completely different than what western religions preach.

PhanthomOps · May 29, 2004, 01:24 am

dave654:

Well you were in the Army and I was in the Air Force - so that makes us comrades-in-arms, cool. Without going into details, it's one thing to hear the bullets wizzing by, but it is quite another when you feel the air break when they pass. Close huh?

I always felt if it was my time, that's it. I guess that's why the guys I commanded classified me as "certifiably insane" when it came to engaging the enemy. For some strange reason, I never feared death.

I still do not fear death, and because of my faith and belief in God, wish it would come soon. But that's up to Him. However, I do not intend to do anything stupid either.

May 29, 2004, 01:46 am

I too was considered crazy because of the lack of concern for my health. Yeah, if you're feeling the breeze, that's waaaay toooooo close. Fortunately, I only felt the breeze from outgoing rounds, and heard the wiz from incoming. Nevertheless, I'd rather not experience angry fire again unless it's really necessary.

PhanthomOps · May 29, 2004, 09:15 pm

dave654:

What period did you serve (years), where were you stationed??

Yeah, they say "War is Hell", but you really don't know the meaning untill you've experienced it, which I too hope to never again>

samsara15 · May 29, 2004, 10:05 pm

I do not view death, It is a non-issue to me. We die. There is no concreate evidence of anything else. End of issue.

**Pooeypants** · May 29, 2004, 10:10 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by samsara15,
I do not view death, It is a non-issue to me. We die. There is no concreate evidence of anything else. End of issue.

Empirically correct but you know what philosophers are like...

May 29, 2004, 10:23 pm

PO. I was in from 1982-1989. I was Airborne so I deployed wherever I was needed. The middle east and Central America were the two regions that seemed to need most of my attention.
All I can really say about what I did is that more went on in Central America than was released to the general populace.
I was stationed mostly at Fort Bragg North Carolina.

May 24, 2004, 07:01 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Nono: Would this apply ?? Absence of Proof, is not Proof of Absence???? A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 24, 2004, 07:18 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	Fits fine. "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

May 25, 2004, 09:24 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Nono: I thought you might agree with that. However, as I stated earlier in this thread, because I do have a belief in God, my view is simply: My time will come one day at God's pleasure. Not that I am anxious to die, but I would like to be with my Lord & Savior. A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 26, 2004, 07:02 am	#24 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,609	rubs hands Valhalla it is for me then. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

May 26, 2004, 07:53 am	#25 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Nono, there is one case, where a womans brain was intentionally turned off, I mean all three known measurements of brain activity stopped, the brain reached 60degrees F.. and she had a very vivid NDE when there was no Brain activity whatsoever... That's one I find compelling, though by no means "proof" how about, intriguing evidence for the true skeptic wanting to know more? Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 26, 2004, 02:58 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	Mr.Vicchio: "There is one case, where a womans brain was intentionally turned off, I mean all three known measurements of brain activity stopped, the brain reached 60degrees F.. and she had a very vivid NDE when there was no Brain activity whatsoever." Can you substantiate that? I don't ask this in a challenging way but because I'd be interested in looking it up. "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

May 26, 2004, 03:14 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function. But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 26, 2004, 10:48 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	Pooeypants: I thought you were more the Atlantis or Star Gate type :) :) Mr.Vicchio - Hey I would be interested also A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 26, 2004, 10:53 pm	#29 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Read the post I put before yours, thats the pertinant part with the link to the WHOLE story of this ladies NDE. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

May 26, 2004, 11:39 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I think death is going to cause me to have a really bad day sometime in the future.

May 27, 2004, 01:57 am	#31 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	Well, if you assume most people are doing it right, it is a stupidity contest. Logical Fallicies Link

May 27, 2004, 08:34 am	#32 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	The way I look at it is I don't remember anything before I lived. Therefore I will return to the same state as I was before I was infused with life in this incarnation. Somehow I got here once, it may be possible to do it again, after all so far as far as I'm concerned I have a 100% success rate, after all I'm here. I will be a bit annoyed if the whole Jesus thing is true. In fact I won't be just annoyed, I'd be livid....after all, all God had to do was give us definitive proof of his existence and everyone would have faith. As nothing is impossible for God in theory providing uncontradictable proof should be easy. what is more likely however is either, you become nothing again, or this is all one really big video game. I hope so, I might be respawned somewhere else. : ) I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

May 29, 2004, 01:01 am	#33 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	dave654: Quote: "I think death is going to cause me to have a really bad day sometime in the future." Let's look at it as a good day, and hopefully far, far in the future. GreatWyrm: Quote: "Well, if you assume most people are doing it right, it is a stupidity contest." ??????????????????????????? Samildanach: Quote: "I will be a bit annoyed if the whole Jesus thing is true. In fact I won't be just annoyed, I'd be livid....after all, all God had to do was give us definitive proof of his existence and everyone would have faith. As nothing is impossible for God in theory providing uncontradictable proof should be easy." Exactly what proof are you looking for??? A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 29, 2004, 01:12 am	#34 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	Actually, my experience in the Army and Martial Arts has helped me reconcile myself to the fact that I will die some day. I've given the subjec much thought since it was a very real possibility that I could have died at an early age because of my occupation. I do not look forward to dying but am not afraid of it. If you saw Band of Brothers, or Twelve-o-clock High, two characters mentioned that fighting in a war is reliant on soldiers accepting the fact that they are already dead. Not literally, but reconciled to the fact that death is just around the corner. With this in mind, one is able to function without living with the stress normally associated with thoughts of dying. Even after leaving the Army, I've maintained this realization that I could go at any time. There have been several occasions when this allowed my to do things others looked upon as amazing when they seemed routine to me. Also, contemplating on what happens after our earthly demise is pointless. NOBODY knows what happens next. As Confucious once said, and I paraphrase, talking about the metaphysical makes me sleepy. If there is an afterlife, cool, the adventure continues. If there is nothing, cool, you won't know any different. If there is an afterlife, I fail to understand how we would have a consciousness anything remotely similar to what we have now since all our brain functions rely on bio-electric functions. An afterlife would be completely different than what western religions preach.

May 29, 2004, 01:24 am	#35 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	dave654: Well you were in the Army and I was in the Air Force - so that makes us comrades-in-arms, cool. Without going into details, it's one thing to hear the bullets wizzing by, but it is quite another when you feel the air break when they pass. Close huh? I always felt if it was my time, that's it. I guess that's why the guys I commanded classified me as "certifiably insane" when it came to engaging the enemy. For some strange reason, I never feared death. I still do not fear death, and because of my faith and belief in God, wish it would come soon. But that's up to Him. However, I do not intend to do anything stupid either. A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 29, 2004, 01:46 am	#36 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	I too was considered crazy because of the lack of concern for my health. Yeah, if you're feeling the breeze, that's waaaay toooooo close. Fortunately, I only felt the breeze from outgoing rounds, and heard the wiz from incoming. Nevertheless, I'd rather not experience angry fire again unless it's really necessary.

May 29, 2004, 09:15 pm	#37 (permalink) (top)
PhanthomOps Hot Lava Location: Glendale, Queens, New York Posts: 970	dave654: What period did you serve (years), where were you stationed?? Yeah, they say "War is Hell", but you really don't know the meaning untill you've experienced it, which I too hope to never again> A Republican - Conservative - PRO-ACTIVE HAWK with compassion For God & Country - To Serve, Defend & Protect Lock & Load - Go In Hot - Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition

May 29, 2004, 10:05 pm	#38 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 I'm the camel Location: Maryland Posts: 657	I do not view death, It is a non-issue to me. We die. There is no concreate evidence of anything else. End of issue. Economic Left/Right -8.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian –6.97

May 29, 2004, 10:23 pm	#40 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	PO. I was in from 1982-1989. I was Airborne so I deployed wherever I was needed. The middle east and Central America were the two regions that seemed to need most of my attention. All I can really say about what I did is that more went on in Central America than was released to the general populace. I was stationed mostly at Fort Bragg North Carolina.