Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

3spddrft · Feb 22, 2007, 09:32 pm

There are millions of church goers in my state of Texas. Through talking with them, i've discovered that many of them are not following the laws of the bible as they were laid down. It seems to beunderstood that people interpret the bible how they see fit. When very few people are adhering to the rules of the bible how is one to know if they're anywhere near the correct path? I would like to believe that my view on the bible is correct, but I am going by the same feeling that sluts, divorces, killers, rapist, and Priest are going by. We all find our own way to get to heaven but simply one interpretation of the bible is correct or we're all going somewhere independant of faith and organized religon is a sham.

Later

Duke1985 · Feb 23, 2007, 12:26 am

I went to one church that spoke of this "come as you are" philosophy they held.
I think it meant, try but God knows your a sinner, you know your a sinner, just try and work on it.
That probably wasn't what it meant but I took it that way and it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside until I left that church.

Kuldeep · Feb 23, 2007, 01:11 am

Your conscience is best judge for deciding whetner or not you are a sinner. If it says that you are on bad path then you need to correct it otherwise, you have are bound to suffer some for all bad you agreed you did it. But, if you correct your actions then, after suffering due to your past bad deeds you would enjoy the fruits of future good deeds. The whole game is played by your own mind.

Bible or any other religion texts are kept for guidance only. The real part is played by you and judged also you only.

:)

phoenix_fire · Feb 23, 2007, 01:25 am

Erm...

Hmph...

*puts chin in hand and looks upward*

Where to start.

Many people aren't following the Bible. The atheists here would probably be quick to say "which part?", but I'll try not to derail this overmuch by going into that. Suffice it to say that, by far the biggest problem in the Christian community is Bible illiteracy. Speak to the vast majority of Christians, and they can fill an encyclopedia with what they believe is in the Bible (but isn't). These selfsame people would ardently swear, given selected passages from the Bible, that these actual scriptures could not be found anywhere in it. These people are willing to believe whatever they are told by seeming authorities such as the Religious Right. It saves them the time of actually having to actualize their faith themselves.

Further, one does not earn Heaven by guessing the correct set of doctrines. Paul makes a point of this over and over. There are things that are important and there are things that are...not so important. To what degree of variance this applies, however, I do not know. God is the one who judges, and all I know is that I will try my hardest for the rest of my life to keep getting better for Him.

ZNFYRH · Feb 23, 2007, 02:19 pm

Is it possible to follow the Bible literalistically? I just can't see living life in a way that accepts all sorts of bad and encourages doing so much good all for the sake of the possibility of an afterlife that, even if you get your ass kicked your whole life, isn't guaranteed.

Jimmy the Pro · Feb 23, 2007, 03:55 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ZNFYRH

Is it possible to follow the Bible literalistically?

If that is a word...generally Baptists will take such stories as Noah's Ark and the Creation story as true. But I dont know about the Laws mentioned in Dueteronomy. I dont want to upset anyone so I wont venture to guess.

Quote:

Quote by: ZNFYRH

I just can't see living life in a way that accepts all sorts of bad and encourages doing so much good all for the sake of the possibility of an afterlife that, even if you get your ass kicked your whole life, isn't guaranteed.

It helps me when I think about it this way. I should live my life as if there was an afterlife and it was good because if I do not then what am I going to think when I am dead? Nothing, for I will have no concious flow of thought. Therefore, if there is no looking back after my coffin is closed, I might as well believe in something rather than accept nothing.

As far as living a virtuous life incorporated with my Faith, that I can attribute to a heightened sense of wisdom and understanding. Whenever you try and see the good in things and learn to aviod the bad, although strenuous, you realize what kind of person you become. It is really a humbling experience. And overall when I look back in my old age I think that I will find that I will have lived a happier life for that spirituality.

But that's just my take on it...

ZNFYRH · Feb 24, 2007, 12:57 am

I don't want to make it seem like I'm belittling your opinion, Idmaniac, but it seems like you live for the afterlife because you would rather not risk being wrong about it.

Personally, I would think that living a life of decency, kindness, and virtue, even if as a "preventative" measure, is still living a good life. The motivation doesn't matter if you're doing good things in the here and now.

Milton Bradley · Feb 24, 2007, 11:25 am

The most interesting thing about this topic to me is the letters from God in Revelation.

All fail the test. All. The Seven Letters to the Seven Churches are clearly all letters of disapproval, and failure.

Jimmy the Pro · Feb 24, 2007, 10:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ZNFYRH

I don't want to make it seem like I'm belittling your opinion, Idmaniac, but it seems like you live for the afterlife because you would rather not risk being wrong about it.

True, please understand this is not my main reason for believing in Christ or having faith, there are many deeper levels of my faith than simply not wanting to be wrong. However I find that when in doubt it always helps to have this as a fallback when I am thinking about rejecting God because of some bad stuff in my life.

ZNFYRH · Feb 25, 2007, 01:25 am

I understand where you're coming from, Idmaniac. As much as I could probably sit here and argue with you about the merits of what you believe, I acknowledge it and understand it and commend you for identifying it in yourself.

Jimmy the Pro · Feb 25, 2007, 11:26 am

Quote:

Quote by: ZNFYRH

I understand where you're coming from, Idmaniac. As much as I could probably sit here and argue with you about the merits of what you believe, I acknowledge it and understand it and commend you for identifying it in yourself.

You know, you're a pretty cool respectable guy. It's good to have new members with good manners and polite responses such as yourself.

It's good :)

ZNFYRH · Feb 25, 2007, 04:40 pm

Thanks.

The way I figure, arguing about religion is pointless. It's great to talk about what we all believe, but why should I point out the flaws in a person's belief? It doesn't change their mind. It doesn't further any kind of discussion.

Instead, your willingness to express and discuss the nature of your belief tells us who you are as a person, and that should always be given respect.

Feb 22, 2007, 09:32 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
3spddrft Sedimentary Rock Posts: 8	Acceptable level of sin. There are millions of church goers in my state of Texas. Through talking with them, i've discovered that many of them are not following the laws of the bible as they were laid down. It seems to beunderstood that people interpret the bible how they see fit. When very few people are adhering to the rules of the bible how is one to know if they're anywhere near the correct path? I would like to believe that my view on the bible is correct, but I am going by the same feeling that sluts, divorces, killers, rapist, and Priest are going by. We all find our own way to get to heaven but simply one interpretation of the bible is correct or we're all going somewhere independant of faith and organized religon is a sham. Later

Feb 23, 2007, 01:25 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Erm... Hmph... puts chin in hand and looks upward Where to start. Many people aren't following the Bible. The atheists here would probably be quick to say "which part?", but I'll try not to derail this overmuch by going into that. Suffice it to say that, by far the biggest problem in the Christian community is Bible illiteracy. Speak to the vast majority of Christians, and they can fill an encyclopedia with what they believe is in the Bible (but isn't). These selfsame people would ardently swear, given selected passages from the Bible, that these actual scriptures could not be found anywhere in it. These people are willing to believe whatever they are told by seeming authorities such as the Religious Right. It saves them the time of actually having to actualize their faith themselves. Further, one does not earn Heaven by guessing the correct set of doctrines. Paul makes a point of this over and over. There are things that are important and there are things that are...not so important. To what degree of variance this applies, however, I do not know. God is the one who judges, and all I know is that I will try my hardest for the rest of my life to keep getting better for Him. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Feb 23, 2007, 12:26 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Duke1985 The Duke Location: Michigan Posts: 308	I went to one church that spoke of this "come as you are" philosophy they held. I think it meant, try but God knows your a sinner, you know your a sinner, just try and work on it. That probably wasn't what it meant but I took it that way and it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside until I left that church.

Feb 23, 2007, 01:11 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	Your conscience is best judge for deciding whetner or not you are a sinner. If it says that you are on bad path then you need to correct it otherwise, you have are bound to suffer some for all bad you agreed you did it. But, if you correct your actions then, after suffering due to your past bad deeds you would enjoy the fruits of future good deeds. The whole game is played by your own mind. Bible or any other religion texts are kept for guidance only. The real part is played by you and judged also you only. :)

Feb 23, 2007, 02:19 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Is it possible to follow the Bible literalistically? I just can't see living life in a way that accepts all sorts of bad and encourages doing so much good all for the sake of the possibility of an afterlife that, even if you get your ass kicked your whole life, isn't guaranteed.

Feb 24, 2007, 12:57 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	I don't want to make it seem like I'm belittling your opinion, Idmaniac, but it seems like you live for the afterlife because you would rather not risk being wrong about it. Personally, I would think that living a life of decency, kindness, and virtue, even if as a "preventative" measure, is still living a good life. The motivation doesn't matter if you're doing good things in the here and now.

Feb 24, 2007, 11:25 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	The most interesting thing about this topic to me is the letters from God in Revelation. All fail the test. All. The Seven Letters to the Seven Churches are clearly all letters of disapproval, and failure.

Feb 25, 2007, 01:25 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	I understand where you're coming from, Idmaniac. As much as I could probably sit here and argue with you about the merits of what you believe, I acknowledge it and understand it and commend you for identifying it in yourself.

Feb 25, 2007, 04:40 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Thanks. The way I figure, arguing about religion is pointless. It's great to talk about what we all believe, but why should I point out the flaws in a person's belief? It doesn't change their mind. It doesn't further any kind of discussion. Instead, your willingness to express and discuss the nature of your belief tells us who you are as a person, and that should always be given respect.