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Athena · Feb 21, 2007, 11:23 am

There are some young people in my life who are having a difficult time finding their places in the adult world. I have given them some things to read, and notice their thinking is very shallow. They just do not get the deeper meaning of the words, so the words are not helpful to them. They gloss over the reading, assuming they already know it all, and their understanding doesn't improve. :eek:

On the other hand just days ago, I got the meaning of God, being only a concept because we can not directly experience God. God is not a tangible reality, but religious people treat God as a tangible reality. Like time, which is only a concept, and we can change it at will, is not tangible reality, but we treat it as tangible reality.

My point being, we can have a superfacial understanding of words, and think we have a functioning concept of reality, but in truth our understanding of things can be so shallow, so superfacial, our ability to reason really isn't that good. Ideally we live by reason, but this takes years of effort, and if we do engage with others for the purpose of thinking about what we think, we can wake up 53 years old and still have the mentality of our youth, not gaining the wisdom that is the advantage of many years.

How then, is the best way to go about getting people to function in such way that their civilization thrives and prospers?

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 21, 2007, 11:30 am

Humans are not actually rational beings, to get what you want you need to appeal to their emotions.

Praxius · Feb 21, 2007, 01:59 pm

You can't teach a kid something they have no interest in or feel is useless to them. You have to relate to their frame of mind and their reasoning. Deal with the problems they have now, help them solve the little things first. Once they get those problems out of the way, they will lose some stress and start to concern themselves with other matters.

Myself, when I am dealing with someone who is younger then I, I don't tell them the best option. I list off as many choices they can make, list the pros and cons, and then I go into detail on how I would approach the situation, or how I approached it and the out come.

Instead of giving them a book to read and understand, put what you want them to know into your own words and explain it in a manner they would understand, 1 on 1.

People handed me all kinds of books to read, but I have no interest in reading books. I will read and read forever online, but I can't sit down with a book.

The difference I see in society these days, if I can use an analogy, is that reading a book today vs. reading on the internet, is the same as watching TV and playing on the computer. Books and TV are dictators..... they are media that travels only one way..... they send the message and you have to absorb it.

With Computers and the internet, it is usually a 2-way media..... there is interaction, such as what is happening now..... it is a bit more personal.

Communications has to be the same way. Nobody like to have a teacher, a book, a tv or anything else for that matter, dictate to you how things should be, or how to do something...... interaction is what gets the attention and how you learn faster.

Fonceai · Feb 21, 2007, 02:06 pm

People want to be shown answers, not told answers.

But they also only want to be shown the answers they already know.

The correct learning pattern has to be instilled at a young age, or it will usually never happen.

Nikkums · Feb 21, 2007, 02:41 pm

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can not force him to drink"

I think this applies to your situation. You can not tell them what to think, or which path to take, you can only show them their options and hope they find their way in their own. Besides, it is our hardships, mistakes and accomplishments in life that define us.. You can't GIVE someone a life lesson, they have to earn it.

LogicaLunatic · Feb 22, 2007, 12:53 am

Quote:

Quote by: Athena

How then, is the best way to go about getting people to function in such way that their civilization thrives and prospers?

Ask them questions. What more easily convinces you? Being told what to think or making up your own mind given sufficient information? It's only then that they'll start asking questions themselves.

Once they start asking questions they'll start arriving at what? Answers, yes. Will the answers always be right? Of course not. But really isn't that part of the learning process?

The connections made by solving their own quandries will be stronger than those simply memorized. The stronger the connection, the more likely they are to believe it.

This is used in a sales technique that works quite well. Basically ask questions in such a way that it will get the potential customer to decide to agree with you several times during the pitch. They basically feel like they've made up their own mind.

Now take a look at the four paragraphs above. The first two contain mostly questions while the last two are just a bunch of statements written as facts.

Which was more convincing?

Kuldeep · Feb 22, 2007, 06:50 am

The best time to teach young ones is as early as possible in their life say around age of 3 year upwards. And the best way is to teach by practical demonstration. What you want to teach has to be practiced by your ownself. You want to teach young to always speak the truth but you seldom speak that way yourself. That would never work. Secondly, the teacher itself should be clear what exactly he wants to teach.

While your teaching is on, the young ask peculiar questions which should be answered in the best possible way satisfying to core of heart.

grandpa · Feb 22, 2007, 11:32 am

Quote:

Quote by: Kuldeep

The best time to teach young ones is as early
as possible in their life say around age of 3
year upwards.
And the best way is to teach by practical demonstration.

I agree. Adults ought to teach children that they are responsible for seeking knowledge for themselves.

Grandpa h.

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 22, 2007, 12:14 pm

Which is in itself fousting knowlege onto them.

grandpa · Feb 22, 2007, 03:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

Which is in itself fousting knowlege onto them.

In a way, but there is a difference between passing on knowledge to the unlearned and trying to monopolize it.

Grandpa h.

***** · Feb 22, 2007, 07:41 pm

Shallow thinking is the curse of the people and nations, for it does not help revive, nor let enjoy pleasant livelihood. Though it might help to have an agreeable life. The cause of the shallow thinking is weak sensation or poor information, or the weak linking ability present in the brain. It is not the natural thinking, though it is the primitive thinking. Human beings differ in the power of sensation and in their level of weakness. They also differ in the power and weakness of their linking ability and in the amount and type of information they have, wherever this information was obtained whether by learning or by reading or gained from the experiences of life. Thus thinking is in accordance with the difference of these matters. In origin, the majority of the people are strong in their brain and linking ability, except a few who were created weak, or they became weak later on. In origin, the information of the majority of the people changes daily, even if they were illiterate, except the abnormal people, whose attention is drawn by nothing, nor do they take any account of anything they learn or read of information. Therefore, shallow thinking is not natural, rather abnormal.

However, the individuals being accustomed to shallow thinking, their content of its results, and the absence of ambition amongst them for better than they have, make the shallow thinking a habit, so they continue with this mode of thinking and enjoy it, and their taste becomes reshaped on that.

It is possible to remove the shallowness, reduce it or make it rare in individuals. This is firstly by removing the habit that they have in thinking. Teaching them or educating them and drawing their attention to the triviality of their thinking and the shallowness of their thoughts achieve this. Secondly, by increasing the trials, whether those they do or see, and make them live in many incidents and sense a reality that varies, renews and changes. Thirdly, by making them live in life, and proceed with it, and thus they abandon shallowness or shallowness abandons them.

Feb 21, 2007, 11:23 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Athena Volcanic Erupter Location: Oregon Posts: 5,172	thinking There are some young people in my life who are having a difficult time finding their places in the adult world. I have given them some things to read, and notice their thinking is very shallow. They just do not get the deeper meaning of the words, so the words are not helpful to them. They gloss over the reading, assuming they already know it all, and their understanding doesn't improve. :eek: On the other hand just days ago, I got the meaning of God, being only a concept because we can not directly experience God. God is not a tangible reality, but religious people treat God as a tangible reality. Like time, which is only a concept, and we can change it at will, is not tangible reality, but we treat it as tangible reality. My point being, we can have a superfacial understanding of words, and think we have a functioning concept of reality, but in truth our understanding of things can be so shallow, so superfacial, our ability to reason really isn't that good. Ideally we live by reason, but this takes years of effort, and if we do engage with others for the purpose of thinking about what we think, we can wake up 53 years old and still have the mentality of our youth, not gaining the wisdom that is the advantage of many years. How then, is the best way to go about getting people to function in such way that their civilization thrives and prospers? Last edited by Athena; Feb 21, 2007 at 11:26 am. Reason: putting in missed words.

Feb 21, 2007, 11:30 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,239	Humans are not actually rational beings, to get what you want you need to appeal to their emotions. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Feb 22, 2007, 12:14 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,239	Which is in itself fousting knowlege onto them. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Feb 22, 2007, 07:41 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
*** Sedimentary Rock Posts**: 9	786 Shallow thinking is the curse of the people and nations, for it does not help revive, nor let enjoy pleasant livelihood. Though it might help to have an agreeable life. The cause of the shallow thinking is weak sensation or poor information, or the weak linking ability present in the brain. It is not the natural thinking, though it is the primitive thinking. Human beings differ in the power of sensation and in their level of weakness. They also differ in the power and weakness of their linking ability and in the amount and type of information they have, wherever this information was obtained whether by learning or by reading or gained from the experiences of life. Thus thinking is in accordance with the difference of these matters. In origin, the majority of the people are strong in their brain and linking ability, except a few who were created weak, or they became weak later on. In origin, the information of the majority of the people changes daily, even if they were illiterate, except the abnormal people, whose attention is drawn by nothing, nor do they take any account of anything they learn or read of information. Therefore, shallow thinking is not natural, rather abnormal. However, the individuals being accustomed to shallow thinking, their content of its results, and the absence of ambition amongst them for better than they have, make the shallow thinking a habit, so they continue with this mode of thinking and enjoy it, and their taste becomes reshaped on that. It is possible to remove the shallowness, reduce it or make it rare in individuals. This is firstly by removing the habit that they have in thinking. Teaching them or educating them and drawing their attention to the triviality of their thinking and the shallowness of their thoughts achieve this. Secondly, by increasing the trials, whether those they do or see, and make them live in many incidents and sense a reality that varies, renews and changes. Thirdly, by making them live in life, and proceed with it, and thus they abandon shallowness or shallowness abandons them.

Feb 21, 2007, 01:59 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,724	You can't teach a kid something they have no interest in or feel is useless to them. You have to relate to their frame of mind and their reasoning. Deal with the problems they have now, help them solve the little things first. Once they get those problems out of the way, they will lose some stress and start to concern themselves with other matters. Myself, when I am dealing with someone who is younger then I, I don't tell them the best option. I list off as many choices they can make, list the pros and cons, and then I go into detail on how I would approach the situation, or how I approached it and the out come. Instead of giving them a book to read and understand, put what you want them to know into your own words and explain it in a manner they would understand, 1 on 1. People handed me all kinds of books to read, but I have no interest in reading books. I will read and read forever online, but I can't sit down with a book. The difference I see in society these days, if I can use an analogy, is that reading a book today vs. reading on the internet, is the same as watching TV and playing on the computer. Books and TV are dictators..... they are media that travels only one way..... they send the message and you have to absorb it. With Computers and the internet, it is usually a 2-way media..... there is interaction, such as what is happening now..... it is a bit more personal. Communications has to be the same way. Nobody like to have a teacher, a book, a tv or anything else for that matter, dictate to you how things should be, or how to do something...... interaction is what gets the attention and how you learn faster.

Feb 21, 2007, 02:06 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	People want to be shown answers, not told answers. But they also only want to be shown the answers they already know. The correct learning pattern has to be instilled at a young age, or it will usually never happen.

Feb 21, 2007, 02:41 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Nikkums Molten Ash Posts: 89	"you can lead a horse to water, but you can not force him to drink" I think this applies to your situation. You can not tell them what to think, or which path to take, you can only show them their options and hope they find their way in their own. Besides, it is our hardships, mistakes and accomplishments in life that define us.. You can't GIVE someone a life lesson, they have to earn it.

Feb 22, 2007, 06:50 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Kuldeep Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,640	The best time to teach young ones is as early as possible in their life say around age of 3 year upwards. And the best way is to teach by practical demonstration. What you want to teach has to be practiced by your ownself. You want to teach young to always speak the truth but you seldom speak that way yourself. That would never work. Secondly, the teacher itself should be clear what exactly he wants to teach. While your teaching is on, the young ask peculiar questions which should be answered in the best possible way satisfying to core of heart.