4 Questions

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
-Thomas Paine (1737-1809), in The Age of Reason, on the Old Testament


"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
"We discover [in the gospels] a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication."
-Thomas Jefferson


"You will notice that in all disputes between Christians since the birth of the Church, Rome has always favored the doctrine which most completely subjugated the human mind and annihilated reason."
-Voltaire


"What can we say to a man who tells you that he would rather obey God than men, and that therefore he is sure to go to heaven for butchering you? Even the law is impotent against these attacks of rage; it is like reading a court decree to a raving maniac."
-Voltaire, 1764


"The Christian faith from the beginning, is sacrifice: the sacrifice of all freedom, all price, all self-confidence of spirit; it is at the same time subjection, self-derision, and self-mutilation..."
-Nietzsche

[PhanthomOps]

Allan:

Wow, your octaretulitus is getting worse :( :( :(

George Washington:
"I am sure that never was a people, who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs, than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency, which was so often manifested during our Revolution, or that they failed to consider the omnipotence of that God who is alone able to protect them."

Abraham Lincoln:
"It is the duty of nations, as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God and to recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."

Thomas Jefferson:
“I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.”

John F. Kennedy:
"The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God."

John Adams:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

John Quincy Adams:
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration...they were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct."

James Madison:
"Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift [James 1:17] we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land."

Benjamin Rush:
"The only foundation for…a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments."

The Supreme Court in 1892 declared "This is a Christian nation."

Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer
"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people. . . . This is a Christian nation."

[Gorgo]

A teacher is an employee of the state. This is not a freedom of speech issue, but a separation of church and state issue.

Originally posted by PhanthomOps, #1 - Yes - 1st Amendment

[Mr.Vicchio]

Where in the constitution is there a seperation of Church and state? Where is this wall... there is no wall. just a prohibition on Congress establishing a religion.

[Gorgo]

There is nothing in the Constitution called separation of powers, either, but it is an established fact.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Where is this established wall a fact? Hmmm?

And the speration of powers is what the Cosntitution is all about... what country are you from?

[Gorgo]

http://www.au.org/site/DocServer/Is_the_Un...n.pdf?docID=103

Where are the words "Separation of Powers" in the Constitution?

[bugsbunny04]

Originally posted by Gorgo,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Gorgo,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A teacher is an employee of the state. This is not a freedom of speech issue, but a separation of church and state issue. <!--QuoteBegin-PhanthomOps, #1 - Yes - 1st Amendment

[/b][/quote]

You are aware, unlike so many, that the phrase "seperation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution?

If so, you are aware that a County School Board Employee wearing a crucifix does not constitute Congress making a law establishing religion?

You do not have to be a genius to make good arguments, but being well read certainly helps.

[PhanthomOps]

bugsbunny04:

Hey right on - and besides, you're not a silly rabbit Ha Ha

[Gorgo]

Well, I've said that I wouldn't take anyone to court over this, but this is a promotion of religion and it is not the job of the state to promote religion.


The 14th Amendment changes the scope of that literal interpretation of "Congress shall...." I am not qualified to state that this particular thing literally violates the Constitution, but am saying that it is a promotion of religion, and the state should not be promoting religion. There are enough churches, the public schools do not need to be another forum for religion.

Originally posted by bugsbunny04, If so, you are aware that a County School Board Employee wearing a crucifix does not constitute Congress making a law establishing religion? You do not have to be a genius to make good arguments, but being well read certainly helps.

[Gorgo]

PhantomOps may find this interesting, especially regarding his quotes:

http://www.atheists.org/courthouse/charlotte.html

[Gorgo]

I would turn the question around. Would it be okay for a teacher to wear a crucifix that's upside down with a pentagram?

[5010]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I am a teacher, I wear a crucifix on my necklace. [/b]

Depends.

I think dress-code policy should be determined by the school. Teachers who do not agree to the dress code can work somewhere else or convince the board to change the policy or convince the parents to elect a different board.

I also think it's OK for towns to tax local residents for schools as long as they are given the choice which schools their money goes to. Also parents should be allowed to choose the school for their kids, as long as the school isn't already at maximum occupancy. Remove the monopoly and maybe we'll start having an EDUCATION system!

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The voters of County X vote to hold a Christmas Pagent sponsored by the town of XX. All funds are raised by bake sales and the proceeds go to the local orphange. [/b]

Yes. The government is for the people, not against the people.

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,@

Congress passess a law stating that the Epicaplian Religion is the offical US Religion.
[/quote]

No. Congress has no business dictating a local issue (religion is local to the individual). They should focus on the relationship between states and foreign powers.

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,

The town of X allows the local Mosque to use city equipment to make the call to prayer.
[/quote]

Yes. As long as the town of X is elected by the people of X and they have the ability to kick them out at the ballot box.

[PhanthomOps]

Gorgo:

Quote: "I would turn the question around. Would it be okay for a teacher to wear a crucifix that's upside down with a pentagram?"

Yes - as much as I personally do not subscribe to Satinism, and oppose it, it is the right of that person under the laws of this nation.

5010:
Quote: "I think dress-code policy should be determined by the school. Teachers who do not agree to the dress code can work somewhere else or convince the board to change the policy or convince the parents to elect a different board."

Doesn't that violate 1st Amendment rights???

[mrmufin]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I am a teacher, I wear a crucifix on my necklace. Allow Yes/No? Why?[/b]

Yeah, sure. Why? See the part about "prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr.Vicchio,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The voters of County X vote to hold a Christmas Pagent sponsored by the town of XX. All funds are raised by bake sales and the proceeds go to the local orphange. Alllow Yes/No? Why?[/b]

Yeah, sure. See the part about "peaceably assembling."

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,@
Congress passess a law stating that the Epicaplian Religion is the offical US Religion.

Allow Yes/No?
Why?[/quote]
Nope. See the part about making "no law respecting an establishment of religion."

<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Vicchio,
The town of X allows the local Mosque to use city equipment to make the call to prayer.

Allow Yes/No?
Why?[/quote]
It depends upon the policy of town X regarding use of city equipment. If town X allows the local mosque to use the equipment (on whatever terms), then town X had better allow the local chapter of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy (or the local synagogue, church, Kiwanis, masonic temple, etc.) to use the same equipment on the same terms.

Regards,
mrmufin

Religous people are not the minority; Only those who are involved or have an affiliation with a church. A non-church going person can still be religous person. Hitler was persecuting religion not trying to expand it, don't quote Hitler for an attack on religion.

[PhanthomOps]

theophysics:

Excellent observation :) :)

Welcome aboard, hope you have a great time !!

[Gorgo]

Yeah, I think the claim is somewhere about 20% claim to be nonreligious, but can't find the exact number right now.

Can only go by what people say and do. Hitler was a follower of Martin Luther from what I can see.

Originally posted by theophysics, Religous people are not the minority; Only those who are involved or have an affiliation with a church. A non-church going person can still be religous person. Hitler was persecuting religion not trying to expand it, don't quote Hitler for an attack on religion.

[PhanthomOps]

Gorgo:
Quote: "Yeah, I think the claim is somewhere about 20% claim to be nonreligious, but can't find the exact number right now."

I think the number is higher.

Quote: "Can only go by what people say and do. Hitler was a follower of Martin Luther from what I can see."

What else do people say??

[Compugasm]

4 Questions

Technically, the answer to all those questions is no. Although, I don't think people know what the "Call to Prayer" thing is. I don't have a link handy, but it isn't bells. If it was bells, i would not care.