Another nutjob

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Duke1985 Okay you got me I didn't back that claim up. I'm not saying religion is necessary for charity or disaster relief, honestly I forgot I wrote that part I get lost when I write and forget I said things and I don't proof read.

Pointworthy.

I was trying give examples the good and bad that can come from religion, and in this I feel I succeeded.

Since the bad exists and is pervasive, one must ask "Do we need this bad thing in order to have this good stuff? Are there other ways to get the the good things without the bad stuff?"

The answer to the first is no and the answer to the second is yes.

[Duke1985]

True, sure I believe you can get all these things without religion. But even without religion you're just as likely to see the bad, just for other reason.

However I think you'll always see religion, think thats just the fact of the matter.

[Zhavric]

Can you honestly think of a scenario where a person would become a suicide bomber? The only thing that comes to mind is the kamikaze pilots of WWII... and the propaganda they were being given was not unlike a religion (probably involved religion).

[Duke1985]

Yeah you could strap on a bomb if you were in a war, and you believed whatever you were fighting for was worth blowing yourself up.
In fact, imagine your homeland wherever that might be gets taken over by an oppressive invading government, you might just be willing to throw a bomb on your back and walk into something.
Religion isn't the source violence, its just a part of it.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Duke1985 Yeah you could strap on a bomb if you were in a war, and you believed whatever you were fighting for was worth blowing yourself up. In fact, imagine your homeland wherever that might be gets taken over by an oppressive invading government, you might just be willing to throw a bomb on your back and walk into something.

We've seen millions of people in situations like that and only the smallest percent of them are willing to do things like this. Also, their targets are usually of military sigifigance...

Religion isn't the source violence, its just a part of it.

... religion is what convinces Muslims to blow up women & children.

[Duke1985]

Thats only a fraction of the total whole of violence.

What about drugs, what about rape, gang violence, crime in general?
A heroin addict will shoot you in the face for your wallet and that makes up a good portion violence.
Tell me did he start shooting smack and shooting people because he went to church on Sunday? No he did it because he's a junkie.
Religious extremest aren't the only violent people out there.

So once again, Religion isn't the source violence, its just a part of it.

[Fonceai]

Quote by: Z Since the bad exists and is pervasive, one must ask "Do we need this bad thing in order to have this good stuff? Are there other ways to get the the good things without the bad stuff?"

Your question is faulty.

You're calling it a "bad thing".

Why not call it a "thing" that inspires both good and bad?

Quote by: Z ... religion is what convinces Muslims to blow up women & children.

Why aren't American Muslims suicide bombing?

Why aren't Irish Catholics getting together to burn blacks?

Why aren't Japanese Buddhists killing abortion doctors?

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Fonceai Your question is faulty. You're calling it a "bad thing". Why not call it a "thing" that inspires both good and bad?

Because that would imply that the bad cannot be seperated from the good which is nonsense.

Why aren't American Muslims suicide bombing? Why aren't Irish Catholics getting together to burn blacks? Why aren't Japanese Buddhists killing abortion doctors?

Because no one has decided to use religion to get them to do these things. The possibility is still there. The question then becomes "What are you getting out of being a Muslim / Catholic / Buddhist that you can't get through secular means?"

[Duke1985]

Quote by: Zhavric Because that would imply that the bad cannot be seperated from the good which is nonsense. Because no one has decided to use religion to get them to do these things. The possibility is still there. The question then becomes "What are you getting out of being a Muslim / Catholic / Buddhist that you can't get through secular means?"

Look the point is you can get good things through secular means, but people are always going to have religion. Fight and fuss about it but its always going to be there.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Duke1985 Look the point is you can get good things through secular means, but people are always going to have religion. Fight and fuss about it but its always going to be there.

This sounds a lot like the rhetoric we hear regarding hard drugs in our society. While I'm all for people being able to have access to whatever drug they want, they need to understand EXACTLY what the drug will do to them, how it's made, etc. People need to educate themselves on the propaganda behind religion.

[Duke1985]

Oh I 100% agree on that people should educate themselves on religious propaganda, and I think people should look into a religion before they blindly join it and run off to win over converts.
But if we (as in me and you and everyone else who thought it was a good idea)
what would the point of the education be, just encouraging research before faith? Or determent from religion in general?

Education is going to have to be in the hands of the individual, because if there was some multi million dollar ad campaign with the aim of education before faith, it would just feed the idea some religious folks have about being persecuted.
And as another point aren't some religions encourage following blindingly, if not all. To have faith in a God your faith would have to be blind wouldn't it.

Either way we've gotten a bit off topic haven't we? This thread is about some guy out in Miami who thinks he's god and getting 666 tattoos.