Banu Qurayzah

[shrike]

Quote by: Captain Chaos I would suggest that this is a reason not to believe the Bible is the word of God. The idea that God wants his prophets to behave like monsters seems quite hard to believe.

I don't consider Bible as historical document if it not substandard with some scientific evidence.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: arielmessenger Saying the words doesn't make it so. Jesus was anti-Pharisees, anti-rabbis, so your attempt to discount that is only your revising Jesus' beliefs and acts to fit your theory... If someone from a cult denounces the cult, are they still a member of that cult? Jesus denounced the Pharaisic cult system and therefore he is not a Pharisee or a rabbi but a teacher, preacher, and prophet of God. Rabbis are our "masters", something Jesus said wasn't true.

I'm getting pretty tired of people telling me what Jesus thinks, and what he would do. Everyone has a different answer.

The massacre of Qurayzah was a horrible incident, but it would be a mistake to judge it by the standards of our own time.

That quote was about muslims, but points out the escape clause in any of these arguments. None of these biblical events relevant in todays world. I'm not directing this rant specifically at you arielmessenger, but all these discussions about jesus sound like meaningless babel. You're all a bunch of armchair prophets brainwashed into jumping off the nearest cliff. Oh screw it. I can't articulate what I mean, so I'm staying out of the religious threads from now on.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Captain Chaos This is a common misunderstanding of Christians, and is a way to avoid a tough issue. This is not about telling God what to do. This is about determining whether we believe a given book is inspired by God. I am not starting from the assumption that God did these things, then judging God. I am starting from an "I don't know" state of mind, then rejecting the idea that the Bible is the word of God because I find it hard to believe a god would act that way. Do you understand the difference?

Well, it begs the question: why then do you believe in God, what do you believe about Him, and where do you get that from...

[notworthabean]

Quote by: arielmessenger "rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish." Rabbi means "my Master", not my teacher. A whole different meaning than just one who teaches. If you like priests, need priests or gurus to tell you how to think about God, then "rabbi" is the term for you. But it wasn't for Jesus who would probably have laid into you as a hypocrite if you were Jewish and holding yourself up as a "master" when Jews were taught no man on earth is their master. And it's my Jewish ancestry saying you're wrong, btw..

Jesus may have thougth that he wasnt' a rabbi, but the people who followed him thought he was. Rabbi=teacher. not master. Jesus was a Rabbi because he explained the Law. if you dont' get that thats your problem.

Also didnt jesus warn of false prophets?

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Well, it begs the question: why then do you believe in God, what do you believe about Him, and where do you get that from...

My beliefs are complex, based upon modern evidence.

Regarding god(s), however, I feel we know very little, if anything. I prefer not to ascribe characteristics based on speculation.

If such beings wanted us to believe specific things about them, they would not need to depend upon unreliable prophets. Since no gods choose to communicate with us in such a way as to impart details about them, in a way in which we will believe without doubt, then they clearly are not interested in having us possess such beliefs without doubt.

'I don't know' seems like a great answer to me.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Perhaps the God wants us to find Him on our own, with only vague clues.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Perhaps the God wants us to find Him on our own, with only vague clues.

Perhaps a large part of what gives life value is in not knowing for sure what lies beyond death.

If you do not know, or believe there is nothing, then this lifetime has much greater value. On the other hand, if you knew paradise awaited you, it would take away much of the motivation to stick around when times got bad.



If God wants us to find him through vague clues, then he must know that people will reach multiple mutually exclusive conclusions about him - meaning he doesn't really want us to find him - at least not with any certainty.

[Gods_Mercenary]

true, or perhaps he likes toying with us, that's what I'd do if I was omnipotent, not saying I'm not, of course.

[arielmessenger]

Quote by: notworthabean Jesus may have thougth that he wasnt' a rabbi, but the people who followed him thought he was. Rabbi=teacher. not master. Jesus was a Rabbi because he explained the Law. if you dont' get that thats your problem. Also didnt jesus warn of false prophets?

Matthew 23

'Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying:
'The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Therefore whatever they tell to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi".

But you, do not be called "Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, he who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ."

Non-Christians are of course free to think whatever they like about Christian terms but without knowing the religious concepts behind the terms they don't know what they are talking about.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: arielmessenger Matthew 23 'Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying: 'The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi". But you, do not be called "Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, he who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ." Non-Christians are of course free to think whatever they like about Christian terms but without knowing the religious concepts behind the terms they don't know what they are talking about.

I wasn't adressing chirsts belief, and quoting the bible means nothing. Jesus was a preacher of a new religous docitrine, therefore he was a rabbi regardless of his teachings.

[loser]

Let's not forget, Prophet Mohammed (saw) was both spiritual and secular leader. Simply forgiving the tribe of Qurayzah would be the same as writing his own death certificate.

If only he had been willing to die for us (like Jesus did).

The Jews had been expecting a warrior Messiah, thus rejecting Jay.

Mo said, "That's me, that's me!"

I wonder why he couldn't be their Messiah, either?

[notworthabean]

Quote by: loser If only he had been willing to die for us (like Jesus did). The Jews had been expecting a warrior Messiah, thus rejecting Jay. Mo said, "That's me, that's me!" I wonder why he couldn't be their Messiah, either?

lets see..hesnot jewish..not of the line of kings (david and solomon)

those two pretty much kill it actually.

[arielmessenger]

Quote by: notworthabean I wasn't adressing chirsts belief, and quoting the bible means nothing. Jesus was a preacher of a new religous docitrine, therefore he was a rabbi regardless of his teachings.

Muhammad too was a rabbi, teaching from the Torah/Tanakh as did Jesus.

[arielmessenger]

these too were all rabbis along with Muhammad and Jesus.

[arielmessenger]

Did you know he was a rabbi?

[Gods_Mercenary]

No, none of them were Jewish or attempting to make clear the jewish faith. Jesus was.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: arielmessenger Muhammad too was a rabbi, teaching from the Torah/Tanakh as did Jesus.

nope, hes not jewish nor was he preaching about judiasm. nor are those smileys.

I think ariel needs better mesengers.