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notworthabean · Feb 25, 2007, 03:24 am

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Quote by: arielmessenger

Saying the words doesn't make it so. Jesus was anti-Pharisees, anti-rabbis, so your attempt to discount that is only your revising Jesus' beliefs and acts to fit your theory.

If someone from a cult denounces the cult, are they still a member of that cult? Jesus denounced the Pharaisic cult system and therefore he is not a Pharisee or a rabbi but a teacher, preacher, and prophet of God. Rabbis are our "masters", something Jesus said wasn't true.

he opposed the traditonal ruling groups. as i've trie dto explain numerious times, a rabbi is anyone who preaches the law. Jesus had his interpertation, and was most definetly a Rabbi, just not of the major schools. of course most jews recognized he was a heretic,but thats another story.

arielmessenger · Feb 25, 2007, 12:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: notworthabean

he opposed the traditonal ruling groups. as i've trie dto explain numerious times, a rabbi is anyone who preaches the law. Jesus had his interpertation, and was most definetly a Rabbi, just not of the major schools. of course most jews recognized he was a heretic,but thats another story.

Have it your way. Re-make Jesus into a rabbi if you need to validate your beliefs by self-authority. Please ignore all the anti-Pharisee, anti-rabbi statements Jesus ever made that showed his animosity for this title and your disrespect for his beliefs. Just go on thinking whatever creative history of Jesus suits your needs.

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 25, 2007, 12:20 pm

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Quote by: The_Genius

@ phoenix, before you pass irrational judgements on Muslims, don't forget that Crusaders killed 40000 (if not more) innocent people for no reason what so ever. But in that Battle of Trench, Muslims were in a DO OR DIE situation. You need to understand the context...

The crusades were also a reaction to muslim aggression, it was both sides fault, and that many were probably killed in the muslim conquests. No one is even close to less guilty in this. Blood is spattered all over both religion's hands.

notworthabean · Feb 25, 2007, 01:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: arielmessenger

Have it your way. Re-make Jesus into a rabbi if you need to validate your beliefs by self-authority. Please ignore all the anti-Pharisee, anti-rabbi statements Jesus ever made that showed his animosity for this title and your disrespect for his beliefs. Just go on thinking whatever creative history of Jesus suits your needs.

for the 100th time miss. prophet Jesus disdained the powerful rabbis/pharisees. that doesn't mean he couldn't be a rabbi-any jew would have considered him as such. there was no licesne or requriments to be so.

arielmessenger · Feb 25, 2007, 03:40 pm

And Jesus wrong.

Since I too teach about Judaism I must also be a rabbi.

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 25, 2007, 03:42 pm

rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish.

Captain Chaos · Feb 25, 2007, 11:15 pm

I still cannot get past the bit about Muhammed selling kids into slavery. Doesn't that sort of act pretty much rule him out as a true prophet of God?

notworthabean · Feb 25, 2007, 11:29 pm

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Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish.

exactly

phoenix_fire · Feb 26, 2007, 03:24 pm

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Quote by: RickSp

Is this any different than what Joshua is reported to have done at Jericho?

Yes, actually. Joshua gave the city of Jericho a week's warning.

Captain Chaos · Feb 26, 2007, 03:53 pm

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Quote by: phoenix_fire

Yes, actually. Joshua gave the city of Jericho a week's warning.

I would also say that any killing of children in Jericho would not exactly be a godly act.

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 26, 2007, 04:12 pm

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Quote by: Captain Chaos

I still cannot get past the bit about Muhammed selling kids into slavery. Doesn't that sort of act pretty much rule him out as a true prophet of God?

He did what anyone would do figting for their lives, I don't think he claimed to be an exceptionally good person, just one with a route to God.

phoenix_fire · Feb 26, 2007, 04:14 pm

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Quote by: Captain Chaos

I would also say that any killing of children in Jericho would not exactly be a godly act.

How would you know?

shrike · Feb 26, 2007, 04:18 pm

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Quote by: Captain Chaos

I would also say that any killing of children in Jericho would not exactly be a godly act.

Do you have some proof that is hapenned at all???

Gods_Mercenary · Feb 26, 2007, 04:20 pm

It says it in one of the more historically accurate books of the bible (not that that's saying much)

Captain Chaos · Feb 26, 2007, 04:35 pm

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Quote by: phoenix_fire

How would you know?

In the process of trying to determine whether or not something is believable, we have to rely upon our own judgment, at some point.

If I am to believe the Bible or the Koran is the indirect word of God, then I would need to believe in a super-intelligent creator who has his prophets commit horrible acts, like killing children or selling them into slavery.

Because I find this extremely hard to buy, I am inclined to reject those books as being infallible.

arielmessenger · Feb 26, 2007, 04:35 pm

"rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish."

Rabbi means "my Master", not my teacher. A whole different meaning than just one who teaches. If you like priests, need priests or gurus to tell you how to think about God, then "rabbi" is the term for you. But it wasn't for Jesus who would probably have laid into you as a hypocrite if you were Jewish and holding yourself up as a "master" when Jews were taught no man on earth is their master.

And it's my Jewish ancestry saying you're wrong, btw..

shrike · Feb 26, 2007, 04:41 pm

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It says it in one of the more historically accurate books of the bible (not that that's saying much)

Are you saying that you believe everything that is writen in Bible?

Captain Chaos · Feb 26, 2007, 04:47 pm

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Quote by: shrike

Are you saying that you believe everything that is writen in Bible?

I would suggest that this is a reason not to believe the Bible is the word of God. The idea that God wants his prophets to behave like monsters seems quite hard to believe.

phoenix_fire · Feb 26, 2007, 04:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Captain Chaos

In the process of trying to determine whether or not something is believable, we have to rely upon our own judgment, at some point.

If I am to believe the Bible or the Koran is the indirect word of God, then I would need to believe in a super-intelligent creator who has his prophets commit horrible acts, like killing children or selling them into slavery.

Because I find this extremely hard to buy, I am inclined to reject those books as being infallible.

In a discussion with a friend of mine the other night, we addressed a similar issue. He finds it ironic that most of the condemnations of this nature come from a morality that is in many ways derivative of NT morality. I find it ironic that mere humans presume to tell deity where to get off.

Captain Chaos · Feb 26, 2007, 04:50 pm

Quote:

Quote by: phoenix_fire

In a discussion with a friend of mine the other night, we addressed a similar issue. He finds it ironic that most of the condemnations of this nature come from a morality that is in many ways derivative of NT morality. I find it ironic that mere humans presume to tell deity where to get off.

This is a common misunderstanding of Christians, and is a way to avoid a tough issue.

This is not about telling God what to do. This is about determining whether we believe a given book is inspired by God. I am not starting from the assumption that God did these things, then judging God. I am starting from an "I don't know" state of mind, then rejecting the idea that the Bible is the word of God because I find it hard to believe a god would act that way.

Do you understand the difference?

Feb 25, 2007, 03:40 pm	#45 (permalink) (top)
arielmessenger BANNED Posts: 701	You must be right. And Jesus wrong. Since I too teach about Judaism I must also be a rabbi.

Feb 25, 2007, 03:42 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,286	rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Feb 25, 2007, 11:15 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
Captain Chaos Shifting Paradigms Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 3,102	I still cannot get past the bit about Muhammed selling kids into slavery. Doesn't that sort of act pretty much rule him out as a true prophet of God? Do all things with love.

Feb 26, 2007, 04:20 pm	#54 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,286	It says it in one of the more historically accurate books of the bible (not that that's saying much) “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Feb 26, 2007, 04:35 pm	#56 (permalink) (top)
arielmessenger BANNED Posts: 701	Rabbi means more than just "teacher" "rabbi simply means teacher, so yes, you are a rabbi, although not in the sense that you are a religious leader, perhaps, since you aren't jewish." Rabbi means "my Master", not my teacher. A whole different meaning than just one who teaches. If you like priests, need priests or gurus to tell you how to think about God, then "rabbi" is the term for you. But it wasn't for Jesus who would probably have laid into you as a hypocrite if you were Jewish and holding yourself up as a "master" when Jews were taught no man on earth is their master. And it's my Jewish ancestry saying you're wrong, btw..