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SoccerfreakAB2 · Sep 10, 2006, 12:22 pm

Does anyone know anything else about this video? Scary:

http://www.thatlitevideosite.com/view/3255

**Jack** · Sep 10, 2006, 12:31 pm

Brings to mind David Koresh and James Jones. Welcome to the American taliban.
Fanatics and extremists always disturb me, no matter what their cause.

shield772 · Sep 10, 2006, 03:22 pm

That was an interesting video, I would like to see the whole movie.

SoccerfreakAB2 · Sep 10, 2006, 04:31 pm

Quote:

Quote by: shield772

That was an interesting video, I would like to see the whole movie.

Interesting, how? What an abomination those people are. I hope you keep it at "interesting" and don't mean intruiging.

shield772 · Sep 10, 2006, 04:34 pm

No intriguiging is a good description, and how are they an abomination?

SoccerfreakAB2 · Sep 10, 2006, 05:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: shield772

No intriguiging is a good description, and how are they an abomination?

Teaching their little children Christian extremism? How is that not an abomination? These kids are going to grow up with one priority and one priority only: their religion. I don't know about you, but a generation focusing on the implementing the Bible into society no matter what the cost (judging by the militant like segemnts of the video) seems scary. Abomination.

phoenix_fire · Sep 10, 2006, 05:49 pm

I can't get it to load.

shield772 · Sep 10, 2006, 05:58 pm

Quote:

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2

Teaching their little children Christian extremism? How is that not an abomination? These kids are going to grow up with one priority and one priority only: their religion. I don't know about you, but a generation focusing on the implementing the Bible into society no matter what the cost (judging by the militant like segemnts of the video) seems scary. Abomination.

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
C. S. Lewis

**Jack** · Sep 10, 2006, 05:58 pm

I think it was Flash, p_f. Does your browser do Flash?
It does take a while to connect to the media.

phoenix_fire · Sep 10, 2006, 06:46 pm

Yeah, I think that firefox is just giving up before it loads.

SoccerfreakAB2 · Sep 10, 2006, 07:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: shield772

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
C. S. Lewis

But also because he sees the sun.

ItsDarts · Sep 11, 2006, 06:34 am

Here is a link on User Comments about the movie from the International Movie Database... IMDb user comments for Jesus Camp (2006)

You can also see the trailer at IMDB.com and it gives you a choice of formats to view it in.

My personal feeling is that this is nothing short of pure brainwashing. Get em while their young. Young minds are easily influenced. Scary Scary people.

phoenix_fire · Sep 11, 2006, 08:01 am

Oh, thanks, Darts.

Much of it didn't seem all that bad. I'm highly likely to cast aspersions on someone saying that they were saved at five. I simply don't think that kids have the wherewithal to make that kind of decision at that age. I think that a lot of those kids were simply doing what they thought they were supposed to be doing. I also have problems with that spasmodic epileptic seizure stuff that some people do to say that they've "got the Spirit". But grown adults do it, and their kids will imitate what they see. I get pretty disturbed when I'm watching Benny Hinn smack people on the head and make waves of people fall down on the floor, for instance. (That guy really creeps me out) I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in motivating kids to be more active in their faith: when they're old enough to seriously make that decision, they'll already have the tools and the foundation to do amazing things.

But my biggest problem with it all is that I think the kids were just doing what was expected of them by their parents. That could cause serious problems for them down the road, and some of these kids are probably going to 180 when they get older. There is something key and important in figuring out who God is for yourself. If all you have is the faith of your parents, eventually that faith will fall. These kids seem thoroughly coached.

ItsDarts · Sep 11, 2006, 08:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: phoenix_fire

Oh, thanks, Darts.

Much of it didn't seem all that bad. I'm highly likely to cast aspersions on someone saying that they were saved at five. I simply don't think that kids have the wherewithal to make that kind of decision at that age. I think that a lot of those kids were simply doing what they thought they were supposed to be doing. I also have problems with that spasmodic epileptic seizure stuff that some people do to say that they've "got the Spirit". But grown adults do it, and their kids will imitate what they see. I get pretty disturbed when I'm watching Benny Hinn smack people on the head and make waves of people fall down on the floor, for instance. (That guy really creeps me out) I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in motivating kids to be more active in their faith: when they're old enough to seriously make that decision, they'll already have the tools and the foundation to do amazing things.
But my biggest problem with it all is that I think the kids were just doing what was expected of them by their parents. That could cause serious problems for them down the road, and some of these kids are probably going to 180 when they get older. There is something key and important in figuring out who God is for yourself. If all you have is the faith of your parents, eventually that faith will fall. These kids seem thoroughly coached.

I agree with much of your post, but I would question the part I bolded above. At what age is "old enough" to make a decision and what "tools and foundation" are you speaking of. What "amazing" things are you speaking of?

You also seem to be saying (without actually saying it) that these kids are being brainwashed. If this is true, again I agree. But I also see all of religion being nothing more than brainwashing at different levels. Some more direct than others, but all of it asks you to believe without logical proof or material evidence, and if you don't, burn in hell.

phoenix_fire · Sep 11, 2006, 10:12 am

I think that "old enough" varies from person to person, Darts. I think that there is a certain level of maturity that has to be reached before someone can decide on matters of faith. After all, "being saved" is supposed to be a life-changing kind of thing. It's bigger even than buying a house or getting married. You don't let a five-year-old get married. For many of the exact same reasons, they are not ready to make a decision about God. Christianity speaks of Jesus dying a horrible death (would you let your five-year-old watch The Passion of the Christ?). Most kids don't even understand death at that age. You can't get them to clean their room or do the chores, yet you expect them to be able to see the implications of the Law of Moses and of sin? Most of them probably can't even read many of the words in the Bible to be able to see if what their parents are telling them is true.

As far as the other questions you asked, I think that it is great for a kid to grow up in a Christian household. I think that if you grow up around people who set a good example, then you will be more likely to do the same eventually. I didn't have such a good example. I am lightyears behind some of my friends in ministry because my family were mostly Christian in name and not much else. My friends were validated and encouraged to explore the Bible and their own beliefs and they were shown examples of Christian living and of evangelism. Because of this, they were able, when they were old enough, to make a lasting commitment to Christ and to go pretty quickly into ministering to others. I, on the other hand, had a lot of issues and misconceptions that I had to wade through before I ever got to that point.

What I was saying is that I don't think that the kids are being brainwashed so much as they are being kids. At that age, they imitate their parents. They want to be just like them. Wait until they hit puberty and see if they are still like that. Particularly because of the strict enforcement, many of them will rebel. Not all of them. But the point is that they will eventually start thinking for themselves. Then they will be forced to choose between taking the faith and making it their own or abandoning it altogether. And until they get to that point, they can't possibly be in a position to "get saved".

PatrickHenry · Sep 11, 2006, 01:27 pm

It's inflammatory. An attack on Christianity...I expect as much from our implacable foe.

Brainwashing? How healthy is the thousands of hours of violent TV watched by our kids before puberty? What about the induction into the cult of Uncle Sam by the apparatus of the national security state, leading to misbegotten foreign wars?

Anybody familiar with Hebrew Camp, where kids pledge allegiance to a FOREIGN FLAG?
Jewish Summer Camps - MySummerCamps.com

Milton Bradley · Sep 11, 2006, 01:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

It's inflammatory. An attack on Christianity...I expect as much from our implacable foe.

Brainwashing? How healthy is the thousands of hours of violent TV watched by our kids before puberty? What about the induction into the cult of Uncle Sam by the apparatus of the national security state, leading to misbegotten foreign wars?

Anybody familiar with Hebrew Camp, where kids pledge allegiance to a FOREIGN FLAG?
Jewish Summer Camps - MySummerCamps.com

Well, if youy see that some of these groups are behaving in a questionable matter, why not the others?

They do seem to be using similar tactics.

PatrickHenry · Sep 11, 2006, 01:53 pm

I don't favor extremism. Except in the defense of liberty...

W.J. Wilczek · Sep 11, 2006, 01:57 pm

Fundamentalism is fascism found religion. It is a peculiar form of madness for which there is no cure.

ItsDarts · Sep 11, 2006, 02:02 pm

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

It's inflammatory. An attack on Christianity...I expect as much from our implacable foe.

Brainwashing? How healthy is the thousands of hours of violent TV watched by our kids before puberty? What about the induction into the cult of Uncle Sam by the apparatus of the national security state, leading to misbegotten foreign wars?

Anybody familiar with Hebrew Camp, where kids pledge allegiance to a FOREIGN FLAG?
Jewish Summer Camps - MySummerCamps.com

WHere is it saying kids are pledging allegiance to a foreign flag? What foreign flag? This is just a Summer camp directory. Should I search through each one to find what you are claiming?

How about this one....Religious Camps & Religious Summer School - MySummerCamps.com

Number of Christian Camps (1838), Jewish Camps (253)

Among all these various religious camps, only 33 are somewhere other than the US or canada. So I assume all these kids LIVE IN THE US.

Sep 10, 2006, 12:22 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
SoccerfreakAB2 ???? Location: Novi. Michigan Posts: 2,163	Christian Extremism Does anyone know anything else about this video? Scary: http://www.thatlitevideosite.com/view/3255

Sep 10, 2006, 12:31 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209	Brings to mind David Koresh and James Jones. Welcome to the American taliban. Fanatics and extremists always disturb me, no matter what their cause. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Sep 10, 2006, 03:22 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
shield772 110 Dead LEO's in 08 Location: Washington, WV Posts: 1,757	That was an interesting video, I would like to see the whole movie. Republican Liberty Caucus Moderate Republican Officer Down Memorial Page

Sep 10, 2006, 04:34 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
shield772 110 Dead LEO's in 08 Location: Washington, WV Posts: 1,757	No intriguiging is a good description, and how are they an abomination? Republican Liberty Caucus Moderate Republican Officer Down Memorial Page

Sep 10, 2006, 05:49 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	I can't get it to load. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Sep 10, 2006, 05:58 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209	I think it was Flash, p_f. Does your browser do Flash? It does take a while to connect to the media. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Sep 10, 2006, 06:46 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Yeah, I think that firefox is just giving up before it loads. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Sep 11, 2006, 06:34 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
ItsDarts 13.7B Light Years+ Location: 42 N, 83 W Posts: 1,018	Here is a link on User Comments about the movie from the International Movie Database... IMDb user comments for Jesus Camp (2006) You can also see the trailer at IMDB.com and it gives you a choice of formats to view it in. My personal feeling is that this is nothing short of pure brainwashing. Get em while their young. Young minds are easily influenced. Scary Scary people. God is superfluous, nuff said Life Made Easy, without a god Big Bang Misconceptions String Theory for the Layman

Sep 11, 2006, 08:01 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Oh, thanks, Darts. Much of it didn't seem all that bad. I'm highly likely to cast aspersions on someone saying that they were saved at five. I simply don't think that kids have the wherewithal to make that kind of decision at that age. I think that a lot of those kids were simply doing what they thought they were supposed to be doing. I also have problems with that spasmodic epileptic seizure stuff that some people do to say that they've "got the Spirit". But grown adults do it, and their kids will imitate what they see. I get pretty disturbed when I'm watching Benny Hinn smack people on the head and make waves of people fall down on the floor, for instance. (That guy really creeps me out) I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in motivating kids to be more active in their faith: when they're old enough to seriously make that decision, they'll already have the tools and the foundation to do amazing things. But my biggest problem with it all is that I think the kids were just doing what was expected of them by their parents. That could cause serious problems for them down the road, and some of these kids are probably going to 180 when they get older. There is something key and important in figuring out who God is for yourself. If all you have is the faith of your parents, eventually that faith will fall. These kids seem thoroughly coached. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Sep 11, 2006, 10:12 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	I think that "old enough" varies from person to person, Darts. I think that there is a certain level of maturity that has to be reached before someone can decide on matters of faith. After all, "being saved" is supposed to be a life-changing kind of thing. It's bigger even than buying a house or getting married. You don't let a five-year-old get married. For many of the exact same reasons, they are not ready to make a decision about God. Christianity speaks of Jesus dying a horrible death (would you let your five-year-old watch The Passion of the Christ?). Most kids don't even understand death at that age. You can't get them to clean their room or do the chores, yet you expect them to be able to see the implications of the Law of Moses and of sin? Most of them probably can't even read many of the words in the Bible to be able to see if what their parents are telling them is true. As far as the other questions you asked, I think that it is great for a kid to grow up in a Christian household. I think that if you grow up around people who set a good example, then you will be more likely to do the same eventually. I didn't have such a good example. I am lightyears behind some of my friends in ministry because my family were mostly Christian in name and not much else. My friends were validated and encouraged to explore the Bible and their own beliefs and they were shown examples of Christian living and of evangelism. Because of this, they were able, when they were old enough, to make a lasting commitment to Christ and to go pretty quickly into ministering to others. I, on the other hand, had a lot of issues and misconceptions that I had to wade through before I ever got to that point. What I was saying is that I don't think that the kids are being brainwashed so much as they are being kids. At that age, they imitate their parents. They want to be just like them. Wait until they hit puberty and see if they are still like that. Particularly because of the strict enforcement, many of them will rebel. Not all of them. But the point is that they will eventually start thinking for themselves. Then they will be forced to choose between taking the faith and making it their own or abandoning it altogether. And until they get to that point, they can't possibly be in a position to "get saved". Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Sep 11, 2006, 01:27 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	It's inflammatory. An attack on Christianity...I expect as much from our implacable foe. Brainwashing? How healthy is the thousands of hours of violent TV watched by our kids before puberty? What about the induction into the cult of Uncle Sam by the apparatus of the national security state, leading to misbegotten foreign wars? Anybody familiar with Hebrew Camp, where kids pledge allegiance to a FOREIGN FLAG? Jewish Summer Camps - MySummerCamps.com "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 11, 2006, 01:53 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	I don't favor extremism. Except in the defense of liberty... "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 11, 2006, 01:57 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
W.J. Wilczek Molten Ash Posts: 25	Fundamentalism is fascism found religion. It is a peculiar form of madness for which there is no cure.