It's almost Febuary 15th. Will John From return?

[arielmessenger]

where the lottery profits go directly to buying shiploads of cargo for Pacific Islanders. No sense letting a good Messianic expectation go to waste..

[Fonceai]

Quote by: Z You came up with 'Buddallavisnuhova' as catch-all for any religious doctrine

That's your incorrect assumption.

It wasn't a catch-all for any religious doctrine.

It was an example of one religious doctrine.

In case anyone else made the same faulty assumption, I wanted to clear it up.

[rez]

Quote by: Fonceai @rez Instead of saying, "This deity says to do action X or you'll suffer punishment Y" they instead say, "This deity says that if you do action X you'll feel reward Y." The difference is in the careful use of language and appeal to positive reinforcement to demonstrate the validity of a deity.

Correct. One deity uses love or positive reinforcement to demonstrate the validity of the deity and the other deity uses fear to demonstrate it's validity. Both deities are exploiting mans emotions rather then mans critical thinking skills, thus both deities are trying to hoax people into following them.

Why be a sheep?

That is the lure of modern cargo cults because it is something that is very hard to disprove.

How about this. "That is the lure of modern cargo cults and religions because it is something that is very hard to disprove".



I acknowledge that that paragraph is valid.

Let me know if you disagree, but it would seem then that the truth one feels regarding matters of religion are purely subjective truths... a.k.a. opinions.

These opinions are based on supernatural constructs. Man used this type of thinking thousands of years ago. There are better and more efficient ways to formulate opinions now.

Notice, I'm not mentioned any kind of afterlife reward. It's staying completely tangible and real. That's how modern cargo cults function.

I was under the impression that John From will return from the dead. I do not see that as completely tangible and real.

To this, I can only say that no one likes being unprepared for a challenge. The former system above can have stories that might give you insight on how to relate those challenges to situations that you can see your way through. The latter offers you nothing.

Actually both people offer you nothing.

Again, people who follow the former aren't wrong. They just have a different value system on which they build their moral and ethical framework.

true. Which value system exposes people's weaknesses though? Maybe they there should be a disclaimer under the rules such as "These rules don't always work".

The John From movement doesn't seek to control the world or alter the perceptions of those who follow the movement. They suggest positive real life consequences for normal, daily actions. That attracts people, and appeals to their own ability to come to consequences. That's hardly brainwashing or conning.

They got people to think that John From will rise from the dead. Oddly, Christians consider that brainwashing.

[Fonceai]

@rez

Please don't be offended when I say that I have found a trend in your comments that degrades your opinion.

You continually demonstrate that you perceive choosing religion a weakness. If you are going to constantly bias your statements through that kind of filter, there is no point in continuing this line of discussion with you.

Your prejudice towards people with religion is not going to change, so my time would be wasted.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Fonceai You continually demonstrate that you perceive choosing religion a weakness. If you are going to constantly bias your statements through that kind of filter, there is no point in continuing this line of discussion with you.

Rez has done no such thing. Give specific examples or retract your claim.

[rez]

Quote by: Fonceai @rez Please don't be offended when I say that I have found a trend in your comments that degrades your opinion. You continually demonstrate that you perceive choosing religion a weakness. If you are going to constantly bias your statements through that kind of filter, there is no point in continuing this line of discussion with you. Your prejudice towards people with religion is not going to change, so my time would be wasted.

The problem I have is that I know I am one in the same with every theist on this board. I enjoy searching for answers that are unknown, it gives me the same emotional feeling that you describe. However, the difference between me and a theist is that I do not speak as though my explanations have an ultimate truth. I find that dishonest and contradictory the way in which one should discover the unknown.

Religion acts as a authority over others. There is no need for a middle man between me and god.

[Fonceai]

Quote by: rez However, the difference between me and a theist is that I do not speak as though my explanations have an ultimate truth. I find that dishonest and contradictory the way in which one should discover the unknown. Religion acts as a authority over others. There is no need for a middle man between me and god.

That is something I actually agree with.

You are basically saying that you and theists both share the same goal; the pursuit of truth.

I hate deferring to a movie, but it's the same speech made in Contact.

I think in that one statement, especially here...

I do not speak as though my explanations have an ultimate truth

... is where I had the wrong impression.

Please accept my apology for misunderstanding.

Then am I correct in saying that you aren't so much saying that all theists are wrong for believing in god, just the ones who presume that their belief is the big Truth with-a-capital-T?

If so, I agree with you, and I think we were disagreeing because I thought you meant all theists, whereas you were just talking about that one type.

[rez]

Quote by: Fonceai I hate deferring to a movie, but it's the same speech made in Contact.

Which speech in Contact?

[Fonceai]

The scene where Ellie is leaving the hearing and is getting in the car, and Palmer Joss comments on what he thinks.

Just from memory...

"Dr. Arroway follows a different covenant than I do, but our goal is the same; the pursuit of truth."