evolved from single cell

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire My point was that scientists can get pretty unscientific about what amounts to their beliefs about how things work.

If the explanation works then it works, if the explanation does not work you find a new one. This is about thinking of explanations and testing them, no beliefs required.

Evolution has pretty much become a religion in and of itself.

Why because people study it even though it is a theory?

[Athena]

Quote by: The_Genius Tell me, how did that very first cell came into being?

Thank you for disproving the opinion that someone with a religious point of view will not consider a scientific prespective. Actually, religion and science can go hand in hand, and if no religious people every studied science, we would still be unevolved. The difference is, not so much science people and religious people against each other, but the poorly informed and well informed holding different understandings.

Crystals take form, right? There are Monoclinic, Triclinic, Ortherhombic, Tetrogonal, and Hexagonal crystals. Each type has a different number of sides, and here is where math comes in understanding how the material realm is constructed. It is also through math, we can understand evolution, and I apologize for not having a better memory and being able to explan such things better. I am hoping a smarter person will pick on this thread and provide better explanations. DNA and RNA are about numbers and sequence. They determine the form something will take and what it will do. We now know the order in which life evolved, and that flower plants had to wait for the right mathematical moment before we had such a colorful world.

Socrates refused the study of such things, because the ancient Greeks knew such study lead to smaller and smaller things, and the word atom came from their understanding. Plastics and laundry soap and other chemical substances, comes from knowing big things are made from little this, and they can be taken apart and reassembled.

Now for the Life Force, we are not really clear where the line is between living things and non living things. Cyrstrals grow and the respond to energy. Like if you want to be excited about God, look into the mystery of crystals, and the mysteries of oxygen, and viruses. Oh, if were young and smart, what an exciting life I would have by pursuing the sciences, and God knows, we need brilliant young people to do this.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: rez If the explanation works then it works, if the explanation does not work you find a new one. This is about thinking of explanations and testing them, no beliefs required. Why because people study it even though it is a theory?

This was obviously a case of someone pursuing an explanation that did not work. And what is a hypothesis except a belief that one functions on in the course of an experiment? The experiment is tailored around this belief, this hypothesis, as the one constant. You are either blind or intellectually dishonest if you don't think a certain degree of belief is inherent in science.

It is a cosmology. And people would modify their behavior based on the acceptance of it.

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire And what is a hypothesis except a belief that one functions on in the course of an experiment? The experiment is tailored around this belief, this hypothesis, as the one constant.

And if the experiment fails, a new hypothesis is formed and tested again with the chance it might work.

The only job of a scientist is to find an explanation that can predict reality. if you have a better explanation to offer, then tell us about it and maybe you can win the Nobel Prize.

The funny thing is science in general is not that perfect. General relativity does not explain why space bends, just that it does and yet you do not complain that this explanation of gravity is a religion in itself. The only thing you complain about is the sciences that contradict your spiritual sensibilities.

You are either blind or intellectually dishonest if you don't think a certain degree of belief is inherent in science.

I do not have confidence or faith that General relativity, Evolution, Quantum Mechanics, or electrodynamics are perfect theories as I explained above. I do know that they are the best explanations to date and I do know scientists keep theorizing better explanations to make them perfect. Do you have a problem with that?

[Praxius]

"We are not made up, as we had always supposed, of successively enriched packets of our own parts. (that is, we were not created the way the bible says we were created) We are shared, rented, occupied. At the interior of our cells, driving them, providing the oxidative energy that sends us out for the improvement of each shining day, are the mitochondria, and in a strict sense they are not ours, They turn out to be little separate creatures, the colonial posterity of migrant prokaryocytes, probably primitive bacteria that swam into ancetral precursors of our eukaryotic cell and stayed there. Ever since, they have maintained themselves and their ways, replicating in their own fashion, privately, with their own DNA and RNA, quite different from ours. They are as much symbionts as the rhizobial bacteria in the roots of beans. Without them, we would not move a muscle, drum a finger, think a thought."

In a sense I can see how this makes sense... Jellyfish have no brain, but is classified as a collective of cells working together for survival and is deemed alive. We are just more complicated.

If our kidneys fail, we cut ourselves, or are hungry, parts of our body tells us so..... we are not just contained in our brains...... our brain is just a meeting place for all of our organs and cells to communicate with one another.... this collective of cells, reaction and interaction make up who were are to a degree.

Our body is shared and occupied by various cells and such that makes everything work, but their collective is what gives us consciousness.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: rez And if the experiment fails, a new hypothesis is formed and tested again with the chance it might work. The only job of a scientist is to find an explanation that can predict reality. if you have a better explanation to offer, then tell us about it and maybe you can win the Nobel Prize. The funny thing is science in general is not that perfect. General relativity does not explain why space bends, just that it does and yet you do not complain that this explanation of gravity is a religion in itself. The only thing you complain about is the sciences that contradict your spiritual sensibilities. I do not have confidence or faith that General relativity, Evolution, Quantum Mechanics, or electrodynamics are perfect theories as I explained above. I do know that they are the best explanations to date and I do know scientists keep theorizing better explanations to make them perfect. Do you have a problem with that?

You are missing the gist of what I was saying. Whether by ignorance or by intention, I do not know. I do, however, know that I tire of repeating myself. The stereotypical nature of your assumptions about my faith as it pertains to my debating ability is evinced by the statement you yourself bolded. Insofar as you allow these assumptions to control your thinking and insofar as you attempt to make me fit the stereotype, an honest and beneficial debate will not progress.

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire You are missing the gist of what I was saying. Whether by ignorance or by intention, I do not know. I do, however, know that I tire of repeating myself. The stereotypical nature of your assumptions about my faith as it pertains to my debating ability is evinced by the statement you yourself bolded. Insofar as you allow these assumptions to control your thinking and insofar as you attempt to make me fit the stereotype, an honest and beneficial debate will not progress.

I don't know any other reason why you have a problem with the theory of evolution.

[phoenix_fire]

Nor have you asked. You simply surmised.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: rez I went through the same trials as you did, except I actually educated myself. irreducible-complexity

Oh yes, I can clearly see the effects poor education has on people.

[Athena]

Quote by: phoenix_fire This was obviously a case of someone pursuing an explanation that did not work. And what is a hypothesis except a belief that one functions on in the course of an experiment? The experiment is tailored around this belief, this hypothesis, as the one constant. You are either blind or intellectually dishonest if you don't think a certain degree of belief is inherent in science. It is a cosmology. And people would modify their behavior based on the acceptance of it.

The theory of evolution does not stand alone. It is supported by increasing understanding of the earth and our bodies.

Are you arguing that is more believable that a God walked on the earth and made a human being from mud? Our bodies are like other animals; they are not like mud. How is it believable that our bodies were made out of mud?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Athena This subject is science. It is presented here, because a religious person is arguing against the theory of evolution. I will quote for Lewis Thomas's book "The Lives of a Cell". "We are not made up, as we had always supposed, of successively enriched packets of our own parts. (that is, we were not created the way the bible says we were created) We are shared, rented, occupied. At the interior of our cells, driving them, providing the oxidative energy that sends us out for the improvement of each shining day, are the mitochondria, and in a strict sense they are not ours, They turn out to be little separate creatures, the colonial posterity of migrant prokaryocytes, probably primitive bacteria that swam into ancetral precursors of our eukaryotic cell and stayed there. Ever since, they have maintained themselves and their ways, replicating in their own fashion, privately, with their own DNA and RNA, quite different from ours. They are as much symbionts as the rhizobial bacteria in the roots of beans. Without them, we would not move a muscle, drum a finger, think a thought." What this is saying is our lives would not be possible without mitochondria, living creatures with their own DNA and RNA. Life evolved from single cell creatures as a result of symbiotic relationships. That is, one cell helping another live and visa versa.

I find the whole topic of how mitochondria got in us to be very interesting, I'm not a huge fan of science as a subject, but the more philosophical stuff I like, like how darwinism works. I hate chemistry though.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Athena The theory of evolution does not stand alone. It is supported by increasing understanding of the earth and our bodies. Are you arguing that is more believable that a God walked on the earth and made a human being from mud? Our bodies are like other animals; they are not like mud. How is it believable that our bodies were made out of mud?

Plus, it just makes sense, at least to me.

[Gods_Mercenary]

never get taught about religion in school. And if it is it's some Catholic bullshit, or in science its evolution bullshit.

What does he mean by catholic bullshit? because they don't reject scientific facts they are somehow bad?

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Athena The theory of evolution does not stand alone. It is supported by increasing understanding of the earth and our bodies. Are you arguing that is more believable that a God walked on the earth and made a human being from mud? Our bodies are like other animals; they are not like mud. How is it believable that our bodies were made out of mud?

Try to put a little more thought into it. What is in dirt and ash? Don't try too hard here.

[rez]

Quote by: phoenix_fire Try to put a little more thought into it. What is in dirt and ash? Don't try too hard here.

So I was right when I said that theist's use supernatural constructs to explain reality...

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Athena The theory of evolution does not stand alone. It is supported by increasing understanding of the earth and our bodies. Are you arguing that is more believable that a God walked on the earth and made a human being from mud? Our bodies are like other animals; they are not like mud. How is it believable that our bodies were made out of mud?

Replacing religious descriptions of creation with the theory evolution isn't really progressive; the theory of evolution has many holes in it. I can see you are trying to balance the debate or provide a better (in your opinion) explanation for all this. However, I think it's better to say "we don't know how" than forcefully promoting a flawed theory that lacks evidence.

[rez]

Evolution Revolution: Two Species Become One, Study Says

Snails Caught in Act of Evolution

Scientists call for life creation debate

The_Genius all scientific theories have holes in them. Obviously you are practicing a double standard if you can not realize this.

Why would any scientist say "I don't know" when all of those links I provided talk about discoveries made?

[The_Genius]

Quote by: rez Evolution Revolution: Two Species Become One, Study Says Snails Caught in Act of Evolution Scientists call for life creation debate The_Genius all scientific theories have holes in them. Obviously you are practicing a double standard if you can not realize this. Why would any scientist say "I don't know" when all of those links I provided talk about discoveries made?

You are playing a dangerous game if you are asking for a "link war". I can also post links that refute evolution.

[The_Genius]

US researchers think this is the minimum set of molecular instructions required to build a living organism. It has been suggested that this could be tested by trying to synthesise an artificial bacterium in the lab - for scientists to create life from non-living chemicals. The idea is currently the subject of an ethical review and the scientists involved say no attempt will be made to proceed with the daring experiment until there has been a full and public debate.

This is from one of the articles you have posted...

Rez, they are still thinking about it. They have not created the living organism yet. So let's just wait for them to try (...and fail).

[rez]

Quote by: The_Genius You are playing a dangerous game if you are asking for a "link war". I can also post links that refute evolution. Rez, they are still thinking about it. They have not created the living organism yet. So let's just wait for them to try (...and fail).

Refute science all you want, I will just keep posting links that discuss successful experiments and tests that show how evolution is currently a great explanation for predicting how life works.

Again, what the hell is the big deal about evolution anyway?