Messages from Ariel

[Captain Chaos]

ArielMessenger claims to be a prophet of Ariel.

I understand many people with some animosity towards religion, which includes myself, will tend to think that ArielMessenger is just insane.

However, insane or not, this is a great chance for us to talk to a person who claims direct information from a divine source. This means we have the opportunity to either:

1) Obtain information from a divine source

or

2) Obtain a greater understanding of how a self-proclaimed prophet experiences religious delusions.


I think we should attempt to be civil to ArielMessenger, regardless of our opinion of her sanity. It will be an enjoyable conversation.



So, ArielMessenger, Can you make a prediction of something that has not yet occurred, but will occur soon, so that we can test your predictive ability?

I have a test for you, if you are game. I have written a 7 digit number on a piece of paper in my office. If Ariel is truly interested in convincing us of his existence, and truth of his message, would he be willing to tell you this number? Could you go into a fugue state and obtain this number from Ariel, then post it here? I promise to be completely honest as to whether or not you post the correct number.

[Zhavric]

Wait...
































... what?


Is Ariel Messenger someone on volconvo.com? If so, please link to one of his(?) posts.

[Captain Chaos]

Your Religion

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Captain Chaos So, ArielMessenger, Can you make a prediction of something that has not yet occurred, but will occur soon, so that we can test your predictive ability? I have a test for you, if you are game. I have written a 7 digit number on a piece of paper in my office. If Ariel is truly interested in convincing us of his existence, and truth of his message, would he be willing to tell you this number? Could you go into a fugue state and obtain this number from Ariel, then post it here? I promise to be completely honest as to whether or not you post the correct number.

This reminds me of something in Harry Potter...

Quote by: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 'Now,' said Umbridge, looking up at Trelawney, 'you've been in this post how long, exactly?' Professor Trelawney scowled at her, arms crossed and shoulders hunched as though wishing to protect herself as much as possible from the indignity of the inspection. After a slight pause in which she seemed to decide that the question was not so offensive that she could reasonably ignore it, she said in a deeply resentful tone, 'Nearly sixteen years.' 'Quite a period,' said Professor Umbridge, making a note on her clipboard. 'So it was Professor Dumbledore who appointed you?' 'That's right,' said Professor Trelawney shortly. Professor Umbridge made another note. 'And you are a great-great-granddaughter of the celebrated Seer Cassandra Trelawney?' 'Yes,' said Professor Trelawney, holding her head a little high. Another note on the clipboard. 'But I think – correct me if I am mistaken – that you are the first in your family since Cassandra to be possessed of the Second Sight?' 'These things often skip – er – three generations,' said Professor Trelawney. Professor Umbridge's toadlike smile widened. 'Of course,' she said sweetly, making yet another note. 'Well, if you could just predict something for me, then?' And she looked up enquiringly, still smiling. Professor Trelawney stiffened as though unable to believe her ears. 'I don't understand you,' she said, clutching compulsively at the shawl around her scrawny neck. 'I'd like you to make a prediction for me,' said Professor Umbridge very clearly. … 'The Inner Eye does not See upon command!' she said in scandalised tones. 'I see,' said Professor Umbridge softly, making yet another note on her clipboard. 'I – but – bit – wait!' said Professor Trelawney suddenly, in an attempt at her usual ethereal voice, though the mystical effect was ruined somewhat by the way it was shaking with anger. 'I… I think I do see something… something that concerns you… why, I sense something… something dark… some grave peril…' Professor Trelawney pointed a shaking finger at Professor Umbridge who continued to smile blandly at her, eyebrows raised. 'I am afraid… I am afraid that you are in grave danger!' Professor Trelawney finished dramatically. There was a pause. Professor Umbridge's eyebrows were still raised. 'Right,' she said softly, scribbling on her clipboard once more. 'Well, if that's really the best you can do…'

[Zhavric]

Quote by: phoenix_fire This reminds me of something in Harry Potter...

That part of Harry Potter reminds me of every religion.

[another day]

with such amazing prophecies as "birds are descendants of dinosaurs" :rolleyes:

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Zhavric That part of Harry Potter reminds me of every religion.

The joke's on you then.

[arielmessenger]

Quote by: arielmessenger View Post
In some instances, yes, I do predict future events, e.g. I am predicting the demise of several traditional religions (and atheism!) due to historical discovery and science overturning cherished mythologies. But seeing this in our lifetimes is not something I can say will take place. I believe Israel will fold and a new Republic of Canaan will eventually replace it and "Palestine".

In one of my earliest visions I happened to predict the now verified theory that birds are direct descendants from the dinosaurs. Please go to Original Biomystical Religious Experience and scroll down to the revelations section. This account btw, contains for me evidence that Muhammad, while getting many things wrong, was truly inspired by God. He, like me, sweated a great deal when the revelations came to him in mystical communion. I go into a kind of "fugue state" its called whenever a major religious visionary period strikes me. I have witnesses to this phenomena who can verify it having seen me in such periods and seeing the resultant new revelations. And like Muhammad, I am convinced an angel of God is guiding me, Ariel the Angel of Peace, the Angel of Jerusalem. (see Isaiah 29)

Here are some more general prophesies from my online book, Biomystical Christianity. Please go to Paxman Prophesies.


"I am going to start a thread for discussing your visions, so as not to derail this one.

Please participate, I find this fascinating."

Please do not ignore my response above that should have told you I am not a fortune teller. Prophesy bearing isn't fortune telling. Go to the next carnival in town if you want to test a fortune teller. Prophets are about bringing new religious revelations to the community--not about predicting which horse will win the Kentucky Derby or which stocks will rise in value.

Don't belittle a prophet's work that way even if you hold anti-religious views. Respect is due from you and all of us to all those leaders in history who have held religious views and held them strongly and set a precedent for morality, e.g., Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Prophets are where these men got their moral views from, not atheists.

I do want to share the unique phenomena that I have inadvertently become a part of--Abrahamic prophesy bearing. Posting on religious forums is my way of doing "market research" on how the new religious information will be received once I publish my Biomystical Christianity book in hard copy. I expect a lot of negative reaction, even hatred from the religions I criticize heavily like Zionist Judaism, but that's all part and parcel of being an Abrahamic prophet.

I didn't ask for this assignment. It was given to me in my first religious conversion experience and it has taken me over 27 years of sometimes wondrous experiences, sometimes spiritual droughts and the "long night of the soul" when carrying this spiritual burden was just too much. I don't like being called crazy but I do know that is what it looks like from the outside to many people. People like me are most often found in the loony bins I know this. But what else can I do but follow this Path that Something has laid out for my life work. I was a visionary person to begin with and then became a religious visionary who's visions have connected me with the Holy Land and Native America. It happens, e.g. Joseph Smith and Mormonism. At least I'm not claiming to find Golden Tablets written by outer space Moroni, i.e. Italian for morons.

Even if you think I'm nuts, there's a wealth of information in my writings about the origins of the Abrahamic religions and Christianity that you will not easily find elsewhere, some of it nowhere else.
__________________

[pikatore]

Quote by: arielmessenger Prophets are where these men got their moral views from, not atheists.

Prove it, and secondly, prove that they even got thier moral views from thier religions.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: ArielMessenger Prophets are about bringing new religious revelations to the community--not about predicting which horse will win the Kentucky Derby or which stocks will rise in value.

Right...

but Jesus, according to the Bible, performed miracles. This convinced people that he has some sort of otherworldly connection.

If you want us to believe these are divine revelations, not things from your imagination, then give us something truly verifiable. If Ariel wants us to believe, it would not kill him to help you out in this way.

It was given to me in my first religious conversion experience and it has taken me over 27 years of sometimes wondrous experiences, sometimes spiritual droughts and the "long night of the soul" when carrying this spiritual burden was just too much. I don't like being called crazy but I do know that is what it looks like from the outside to many people.

Indeed. However, a person can be utterly bonkers and still quite likable. I do not hold insanity against you.

I really would be interested in getting something that makes your message believable. Can you at least ask Ariel to tell you the number I wrote on that piece of paper? That would be pretty powerful confirmation.

People like me are most often found in the loony bins I know this.

In the U.S., you have to be judged to be a danger to yourself or others. Otherwise, you can be as nuts as you want and still walk free.

But what else can I do but follow this Path that Something has laid out for my life work.

You can question it and test it. If you are unable to obtain independently verifiable information, then you can doubt it.


As an example...

I have had several hundred out of body experiences. Unfortunately, they do not seem to provide verifiable information. I can get out of my body, go look at a map on the wall, and see information there. The information on the map that I see while out of body will be wrong - will not match up with the real map. This tells me to doubt the veracity of my experience.

You can subject your experiences to the same sort of tests, and prove their truth or falsehood to yourself.


Do you possess the courage to doubt your experiences, if they prove to provide false information, or if Ariel fails to come through for you when you are put to the test?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Perhaps ariel's just on acid?

[Jack]

Don't belittle a prophet's work that way even if you hold anti-religious views. Respect is due from you and all of us to all those leaders in history who have held religious views and held them strongly and set a precedent for morality, e.g., Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

MLK was a great man, but a bastion of morality he was not. Just like Ghandi, he was mortal and imperfect.
Respect is not due from us to all leaders in history who have held religious views. Some of those people have been "good" people, others have not. Respect is earned, not demanded. Considering what religion has brought to our planet overall, I'm less than inclined to respect it and its proponents. I will respect individuals with religious views, but like everyone else including myself, they need to earn it.

[phoenix_fire]

I find it interesting that AM is comparing h-self to these people.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Yaaaa, kind of arrogant, sort of like an unsuccesful general comparing himself to Napoleon and Caesar. When she comes back with a few million followers, then we'll talk about comparing you to Mohammed and Jesus.

[nilan3000]

Ariel, if you expect people to beleive what you say, you need to show us some proof. We no longer live in the dark ages where everything is beleived the minute it comes out from a wise persons mouth. The 'standard of proof' is much higher these days than it was in the times of Jesus and Mohammed. To us, your statements have only as much evidence as concepts like the Boogeyman or the Tooth Fairy.

"Expression itself is not enough in the Age of Reason; Evidence is what is required." - Nilanthan Niruthan, tamil philosopher and lawyer,University of Hull

[ItsDarts]

Who is Ariel????????

[Zhavric]

Quote by: ItsDarts Who is Ariel????????

Revealed.

Quote by: CC I really would be interested in getting something that makes your message believable.

What are you talking about CC? If you want to remain intellectually honest, wouldn't you have to admit AM's claims are unknown and could be true?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you'd decided they're false and you're challenging AM to provide evidence to prove them true.

[Praxius]

I've seen visions myself.... I've predicted things too.... (Seriously)

But I ain't no prophet, nor is anybody else. I feel those who claim to be prophets, are using their new found ability to influence their opinion of things and what they want to see things as to the masses, because they feel they know the right way of things.

In the end, all you have is either some crazy people, or people who actually make enough sense for people to follow them and then you have another religion fighting amongst the other religions.

The more people there are out there who claim they know the way, and they're a messenger, the more confusion and divisions come about in the world community.

We already have enough friggin religions blowing shit up, we don't need another.

In my eyes, religions had their chance to make the world great and peaceful, but in the end they have only made things worse.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Zhavric What are you talking about CC? If you want to remain intellectually honest, wouldn't you have to admit AM's claims are unknown and could be true? If I didn't know better, I'd say you'd decided they're false and you're challenging AM to provide evidence to prove them true.

I am sure you are trying to make a point here, but you are failing to do so accurately.

I will explain the difference, even though you will not understand it.

Ariel's beliefs are specific. The category of possible non-omnipotent gods is potentially vast. When estimating probabilities, it is inaccurate to compare a specific thing to a vast category.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Ariel's beliefs are specific. The category of possible non-omnipotent gods is potentially vast. When estimating probabilities, it is inaccurate to compare a specific thing to a vast category.

AM's beliefs are no more or less specific than the so-called "category" of allegedly 'non-omnipotent' gods which you've claimed are possible without a shred of support. All she has to do is start using the Redefinition Fallacy to create a "category" for her beliefs and you'll have to concede they're possible or contradict yourself.

Honestly, you haven't a leg to stand on here. You have no evidence her claims are false nor are you in any position based on your past performance to demand evidence.