Messages from Ariel

[arielmessenger]

I risk vilification by exposing my religious visions here because I am truly interested in finding people who are seriously curious about divine intervention and also to judge the degree of hostility my eventual book in print will arouse.

But I am not a saint, just a messenger, and sometimes when the criticism gets thick with unreasoned comments, comments meant merely to discredit me personally instead of looking at the new material I bring, I react.

I will respond to reasonable questions and reasoned criticism but not to one-liner put-downs.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Captain Chaos A complete aside that is totally unrelated... I am jealous of Phoenix Fire's icon!

*blushes*

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: arielmessenger I risk vilification by exposing my religious visions here because I am truly interested in finding people who are seriously curious about divine intervention and also to judge the degree of hostility my eventual book in print will arouse. But I am not a saint, just a messenger, and sometimes when the criticism gets thick with unreasoned comments, comments meant merely to discredit me personally instead of looking at the new material I bring, I react. I will respond to reasonable questions and reasoned criticism but not to one-liner put-downs.

I don't think you're being honest. Do not take skepticism toward your beliefs as a personal attack. The people on this thread have been pretty indulgent. It was started in an attempt to make sure that you got a fair say. CC is genuinely interested in what you have to say and wants to compare notes on your experiences. Pika has asked precisely the kind of reasonable questions that you are ostensibly seeking. And I have been, at some points, trying to make sure that the debate stays fair for you, and at others making objective points where I think that you diverge from Christianity.

You seem to be the only one really turning this into a personal thing. We do not care to be called "atheist nitwits". This is strictly untrue. I doubt anyone responding could be considered unintelligent, and many of us are not atheists. Now, calm down, take a deep breath, and let's keep it real.

[arielmessenger]

"The inspirations that you get during your fugue states may or may not be true. Just because your experience sounds like you are in a manic state, clinically speaking, does not mean that your inspirations are false. However, I would suggest to you that such inspirations should not be assumed to be true unless you have some means of hardcore independent nonsubjective verification."

You are right in suggesting independent nonsubjective verification of my religious visions and mission, something which occurred "naturally" when I discovered that my Vision of Christ Josephine matched in many ways the Lakota prophesy of the return of White Buffalo Calf Woman, their spirit woman Savior and founder of Lakota sacred ceremonies. But the match went farther than my words matching Lakota legends--God had connected me physically to the Lakota unknown to me at the time when my daughter married a good local white boy who "just happened" to be a direct descendant of Sitting Bull. This marked the second time this vision had jumped from sitting in my little brain to correspondence in others. My daughter had had a vision of Josephine 14 years before me and I didn't pay it any attention at the time but was quite surprised to find myself having the Vision of Christ Josephine years later and then both of us becoming directly connected to Lakotas.

Former President of the Oglala Sioux, Alex White Plume, is my friend now, and because he raised buffaloes, he will be supplying the four horns needed for the new Altar of Peace that Paxcalibur will eventually rest upon in Jerusalem. This is how I judge divine intervention is happening with this vision. It continues to grow and connect people. Through the Pax vision I was connected to the Palestinians and now have several good Palestinian friends and of course the good will of most all Arab Christians and Muslims in Nazareth who witnessed Paxcalibur at Easter of 2003.

Are these real Signs of divine intervention? I can't tell you that but I do believe it to be so. A spiritual movement, a revolutionary one, is either in motion or it isn't. Time will tell..

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: ArielMessenger Are these real Signs of divine intervention? I can't tell you that but I do believe it to be so. A spiritual movement, a revolutionary one, is either in motion or it isn't. Time will tell..

I was thinking more along the lines of prospective confirmation. That is why I proposed that number test to you. I have a hunch that your mind is very good at spotting patterns. You could probably very good at Scrabble, if you wanted to be, I bet. However, spotting a confirmatory pattern after the fact does not really confirm anything. It would be an amazing coincidence, if coincidences never happened.

For true confirmation, we need predictions with a specific time and specific outcome. By prediction, I do not mean prophecy. I mean a cause-and-effect prediction. Like, if you predict that Ariel will give you the power to hover in the air for 30 seconds, then you do it.

Or, like, if you predict that giving a medication to a group of people will have a stronger effect than placebo, then you perform the test, and it turns out to have that stronger effect.

Retrospective testing is ok, but can marred by the process of deliberately or subconsciously looking for matching patterns. Well designed prospective testing avoids this problem.

I know, I know, Ariel does not grant folk the power to levitate, and does not perform for you at your beck and call.

Unfortunately, in order to convince people that you are being inspired by a divine source, you need to perform miracles. After-the-fact coincidence matching will persuade very few.

Please don't be offended by my comments. I am just sharing my honest opinion of what will and will not work.

[arielmessenger]

The climax awaiting the Paxcalibur story will happen when Pax is presented to the Muslim steward(s) of the Dome of the Rock as God's Gift. To accept Paxcalibur will force Muslims to examine the nature of their "religion of peace" vs. what a new prophesy-bearer brings as a new revelation. All this is a no-no in Islam, no icons, no new prophets, nobody messes with Muslim territory of Al Sakra.

A lot of historical information about the roots of the Abrahamic religions has to come to the surface of intellectuals in authoritative positions and it's only just begun, e.g. the Canaan connection that surprised me when I found that Palestinian thinkers have themselves been using the old name for the Promised Land for their visions of single democratic state.

Still, only a miracle will allow Pax entry into the Dome of the Rock. At the heart of the Paxcalibur peace challenge is challenge to Abrahamic religions being used as territorial control devices and not as spiritual guidance for bringing people closer to God and humane living. At the heart of this is acceptance of the Peace Symbol as as holy a symbol as God ever inspired. So territorial agendas are seriously criticized.

A miracle of rapid knowledge spreading out could be assisted by the production of a documentary film of the Story of Paxcalibur, an avenue I have been exploring on and off now for several years. But, my funds are severely limited as I am retired from the rat-race and living on fixed social security income. So funding too is up to divine intervention.

All in all, I can't predict when anything noticeable will happen with my religious visions. I just do the steps and wait and see. So far, pretty dang spectacular things have happened in my life around these religious visions. But for others? Can't say. Only delivering the message.:confused:

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: AM The miracle will be Muslims accepting Paxcalibur as a clear Sign of the Messiah

Can you tell me a number-range of Muslims that will do this, and a date range as to when it will happen?

If you convert 5 Muslims, I will not be inclined to call it a miracle. On the other hand, if you convert 50-thousand Muslims in the next 20 years, I will be highly impressed. Not sure if I would call it a miracle, but I would still be impressed.

[arielmessenger]

How about you arrange for publishing my Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan in Arabic and we distribute 50,000 copies throughout Israel and the Occupied Territories and see what happens?

[pikatore]

Quote by: arielmessenger How about you arrange for publishing my Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan in Arabic and we distribute 50,000 copies throughout Israel and the Occupied Territories and see what happens?

Probably the same thing as doing that with Cinderella. Some will read it, some will be nutty enough to believe it, and most won't give a damn. Why should they?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Or he might get shot, but whatever.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: arielmessenger How about you arrange for publishing my Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan in Arabic and we distribute 50,000 copies throughout Israel and the Occupied Territories and see what happens?

um...

I lack both the belief and the cash, sorry.

[arielmessenger]

What if I challenge all here who think my prophesy bearing claim is delusional to pony up enough money to get me and say, 5,000 copies of the Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan to Israel this year to distribute the books and see what happens?

Divided amongst all you atheists and theists of differing persuasions, it shouldn't be all that much. Put you money where your mouth is--test a religious fanatic's claims against reality.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: arielmessenger What if I challenge all here who think my prophesy bearing claim is delusional to pony up enough money to get me and say, 5,000 copies of the Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan to Israel this year to distribute the books and see what happens? Divided amongst all you atheists and theists of differing persuasions, it shouldn't be all that much. Put you money where your mouth is--test a religious fanatic's claims against reality.

1.) The theists who think that you are not inspired would not want to help you spread a philosophy that they believe to be against their faith.

2.) The atheists (and the theists too for that matter) would find it far more impressive if you came up with it yourself (viz. if Ariel came through for you). Getting others to pay for your stuff for you doesn't make much of a miracle. We would assume that if there was divine intervention in your message, that that divine power would not let money stand in its way. I mean no disrespect, but when you start saying things like that, you start sounding like the televangelist con artists. I tell you this as a friendly warning: it compromises your message.

[arielmessenger]

Direct from Jerusalem, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Temple Mount Hour with your angelic host, the Archangel Ariel and his sidekick, Arielmessenger!

You won't be able to see Ariel of course, being the Angel of Jerusalem and a Heavenly Intercessor and not prone to making physical appearances except that sure is one cute little mermaid..but here's Arielmessenger right here in front the audience and Arielmessenger says he's third down the chain of command: EL > Ariel > Arielmessenger, and has a material body and is the appointed prophesy bearer and therefore can talk for his invisible superiors. It's all according to the book, folks.

Here's Arielmessenger..

Hi folks, glad you could tune in today, we're gonna have a Big Show today, cause God Most High says He's gonna put in a personal appearance on TMH, yes sir, yes mam', you heard right. GOD is going to be on our show Today!

But first, we do so desperately need your continuing support of our cause, you know what it is, why nothing short of bring the new Word of God to the WHOLE WORLD direct from Jerusalem! So keep sending in those contributions and we will send you absolutely free one of our fine Rainbow Bibles where you too can read the wisdom in this essence of God's radiant truth.

Here with me on the show is Muhammad Abdul Aziz Awad Delany, Grand Mufta of Al Sakra. He says that a true miracle has occurred following the dissemination of the Story of Paxcalibur and the Canaan Peace Plan. Well, let's let Muhammad tell us in his own words what happened.

Contrary to all expectations, the Grand Council of Islamic stewards of Al Sakra has agreed that Paxcalibur truly is a clear Sign from God directing all who see this symbol to God's intention: Everything people make into weapons against peace must be sacrificed. Truth cannot be sacrificed.

Who could disagree with that? Certainly Islam has always meant to be the religion of peace yet it cannot be denied something terrible is wrong with our religion now, it has been literally hijacked and is used as a murderous weapon to kill not only non-believers but Muslims themselves.

We moderate peace-loving Muslims have wanted to believe if only Muslims would follow the the teachings of the Quran all would well between Muslims and everyone else but no, we see the Quran being used like a military training manual in war camps to brainwash naive minds into believing Allah condones the killers who claim their murders in the name of Allah. But the critics all point to how our beloved Book inspires so many killers now in our modern age.

We are not in the Middle Ages anymore. Something must change somewhere but where, how? The Quran itself teaches how and where to look. Look for a clear Sign from God. Paxcalibur, the Sword of Peace, is that clear Sign from God. Who could disagree with God's Gift of an icon of Peace for the place on earth where God as Peace was first worshiped. It all makes logical sense to those of us attuned to the spiritual ways of God and Its messengers.

So, in spite of what everyone thought we Muslims would do when confronted with a challenge to the spiritual authority of Muhammad, that is react in anger, we perceived that the spiritual heart of this matter was indeed a strong jihad, facing a spiritual truth that had to be faced sooner or later. Is Islam a religion of peace or isn't it? We hope with our Sign of tolerance that we are answering our critics with positive proof. Thank you, Arielmessenger, for bringing us this grandest of opportunities for uniting all those who believe in peace together in one common accord.

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[pikatore]

....

[Jack]

Put you money where your mouth is--test a religious fanatic's claims against reality.

It would be more rewarding spiritually to hand $5 to the homeless guy down the street who thinks he's Jesus.

BTW-why would anyone need "the Sword of Peace"? Peace is rarely attained at sword-point. Let's just go all out and create the nuclear bomb of love.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Peace is rarely attained at all, but it has been obtained at sword point, if only temporarily, which all peace is guaranteed to be anyway.

[arielmessenger]

[phoenix_fire]

Still works as a "club of peace" I see.

[pikatore]

And that picture of a sword with the symbol of peace of it's end, glued to what looks like a piece of wood, lying on the ground, is supposed to do WHAT exactly to convince me?