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Fonceai · Feb 8, 2007, 03:56 pm

So when someone asks you if it's possible for something to happen, you're going to say, "I don't know"?

You are allowed to have an opinion, even if it's based on nothing more than just your thoughts and perspectives.

Do you think one day your face will clear up, you'll lose weight, and lose your virginity?

As a teenage boy, if asked the same question, if I said, "I don't know" then I would have been the stupid one.

As rez just wrote... you think it's stupid to make an educated guess?

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:00 pm

If I make a prediction, I want it to be based on evidence, and patterns I have seen in the past. I know nothing about the creation of universi, so I don't consider myself qualified to make any conjecture as to the creation of ours.

The main principle of agnosticism is to follow your reasoning as far as it can take you, and no farther. If any conclusion was more likely than another, I would believe in the more likely scenario. I'm waiting for this to be demonstrated.

rez · Feb 8, 2007, 04:02 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

If I make a prediction, I want it to be based on evidence, and patterns I have seen in the past. I know nothing about the creation of universi, so I don't consider myself qualified to make any conjecture as to the creation of ours.

The main principle of agnosticism is to follow your reasoning as far as it can take you, and no farther. If any conclusion was more likely than another, I would believe in the more likely scenario. I'm waiting for this to be demonstrated.

as of right now this is the more likely scenario.

the universe is governed by a set of rational laws that can be discovered and understood.

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rez

So you are saying people are unable to make an educated guess or a sound prediction...they would be just stupid, right?

No, not as long as they display how there guess is 'educated'.

Captain Chaos, for example, subscribes to the principle of infinite emergence. I consider this an educated guess.

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rez

as of right now this is the more likely scenario.

the universe is governed by a set of rational laws that can be discovered and understood.

Prove it.

rez · Feb 8, 2007, 04:10 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

Prove it.

Do not be ignorant. Science does not prove anything. As of right now it is the best explanation to date, and if you got something better then bring it on.

rez · Feb 8, 2007, 04:13 pm

I think this quote sums it up nicely.

Quote:

1) There is a universe.
2) We want to explain it.
3) There are many competing explanations.
4) What criterion will we use to prefer one explanation over another?
5) Once we have made a choice should we stick with it?

For science 4) - It is how well it does at explaining and predicting reality.

For religion 4) - It is a silly question. You must only prefer the explanation of your religion.

For science 5) - You change when a better explanation comes along as per the criterion used in 4)

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:13 pm

You made a claim - that it's the most probable. If you can't prove that, then I have no reason to take it seriously.

rez · Feb 8, 2007, 04:29 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

You made a claim - that it's the most probable. If you can't prove that, then I have no reason to take it seriously.

What else do you need, if the claim is the best explanation to date?

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:32 pm

You keep saying that it's the best explanation, but you have no proof of that. You show no evidence, logic, or even simple inductive reasoning in your post. I'm not going to take your claim seriously.

Fonceai · Feb 8, 2007, 04:34 pm

Now you know how we feel about your posts... especially since you mentioned not taking you seriously, regardless.

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:37 pm

Find me one example of an absolute statement made by me that I didn't back up.

Fonceai · Feb 8, 2007, 04:42 pm

"back up" means "with evidence".

Evading it with your own brand of reasoning does not count, and drenching your statement with qualifiers doesn't count either.

Besides, the statements are usually wrapped in derision for those in the thread, so we don't have to take them seriously, right?

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:46 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

Find me one example of an absolute statement made by me that I didn't back up.

...

Fonceai · Feb 8, 2007, 04:52 pm

Well do you want the ones you "backed up" (preferable term in debating is "supported") with an actual reference of some kind?

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 04:57 pm

Ok, let's stop dancing around my point:

I've never asserted something as 100% true without proving it, except for maybe empirical facts. Of course, I welcome referenced challenges to this.

rez · Feb 8, 2007, 05:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Kamehameha34

You keep saying that it's the best explanation, but you have no proof of that.

The explanations that science provides do contain evidence and thus can be tested and be reproduced in a lab. This leads to new discoveries that can be used by man.

the universe is governed by a set of rational laws that can be discovered and understood. Please get your head out of your ass Kame.

Nothing is proven.

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 05:06 pm

"It is because it is. Get your head out of your ass."

T'cha.

RickSp · Feb 8, 2007, 05:34 pm

I used to have a dog that liked to chase his tail. Would go round and round in circles for the longest time. He seemed to enjoy it.

Funny how this thread brought that memory back to me.

Kamehameha34 · Feb 8, 2007, 06:00 pm

Well, you have been posting on it. Admittedly, it is funny to watch you tie yourself in knots trying to ascertain my simple position :)

Feb 8, 2007, 05:34 pm	#299 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589	I used to have a dog that liked to chase his tail. Would go round and round in circles for the longest time. He seemed to enjoy it. Funny how this thread brought that memory back to me. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Feb 8, 2007, 03:56 pm	#281 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	So when someone asks you if it's possible for something to happen, you're going to say, "I don't know"? You are allowed to have an opinion, even if it's based on nothing more than just your thoughts and perspectives. Do you think one day your face will clear up, you'll lose weight, and lose your virginity? As a teenage boy, if asked the same question, if I said, "I don't know" then I would have been the stupid one. As rez just wrote... you think it's stupid to make an educated guess?

Feb 8, 2007, 04:00 pm	#282 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	If I make a prediction, I want it to be based on evidence, and patterns I have seen in the past. I know nothing about the creation of universi, so I don't consider myself qualified to make any conjecture as to the creation of ours. The main principle of agnosticism is to follow your reasoning as far as it can take you, and no farther. If any conclusion was more likely than another, I would believe in the more likely scenario. I'm waiting for this to be demonstrated.

Feb 8, 2007, 04:13 pm	#288 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	You made a claim - that it's the most probable. If you can't prove that, then I have no reason to take it seriously.

Feb 8, 2007, 04:32 pm	#290 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	You keep saying that it's the best explanation, but you have no proof of that. You show no evidence, logic, or even simple inductive reasoning in your post. I'm not going to take your claim seriously.

Feb 8, 2007, 04:34 pm	#291 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Now you know how we feel about your posts... especially since you mentioned not taking you seriously, regardless.

Feb 8, 2007, 04:37 pm	#292 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	Find me one example of an absolute statement made by me that I didn't back up.

Feb 8, 2007, 04:42 pm	#293 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	"back up" means "with evidence". Evading it with your own brand of reasoning does not count, and drenching your statement with qualifiers doesn't count either. Besides, the statements are usually wrapped in derision for those in the thread, so we don't have to take them seriously, right?

Feb 8, 2007, 04:52 pm	#295 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Well do you want the ones you "backed up" (preferable term in debating is "supported") with an actual reference of some kind?

Feb 8, 2007, 04:57 pm	#296 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	Ok, let's stop dancing around my point: I've never asserted something as 100% true without proving it, except for maybe empirical facts. Of course, I welcome referenced challenges to this.

Feb 8, 2007, 05:06 pm	#298 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	"It is because it is. Get your head out of your ass." T'cha.

Feb 8, 2007, 06:00 pm	#300 (permalink) (top)
Kamehameha34 The dingos! Posts: 4,548	Well, you have been posting on it. Admittedly, it is funny to watch you tie yourself in knots trying to ascertain my simple position :)