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Technosoul · Jan 26, 2007, 04:55 pm

Why not teach that Nature is god?

We have evidence and lots of proof that nature is the creative source of our being here. We have evidence that Nature can control if we live or die. And that we are in fact dependant upon it.

Nature as a god has a long standing history as a belief systems, dating back to some of the most primitive religions of paganism and shamanism.

Not even a scientist would need to employ "faith" to agree that Nature is the Sourcer for our life and being.

So why not just admit it?

Nature might not be 'one identity" or "one mind" but might be a united collection of things that have adapted to each other to formulate the totality of exsistance. That might be one objection of this theory - but need it be?
But even if people wish to believe it is "One Intelligence" that has become departmentalized others could hold a different interpretation but it would still be what a God is invisoned as represent.

Nature is not a myth - it is as real as sunshine and as real as an earthworm.
So it would seem everyone should just "convert" to this more factual version of our "God" (in a non-gender application of the word).

Right?

Praxius · Jan 26, 2007, 05:03 pm

I agree... but are you talking about everybody adopting Wicca?

Wicca

The_Genius · Jan 27, 2007, 03:47 am

Nature is mortal, just like us.

Praxius · Jan 27, 2007, 07:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The_Genius

Nature is mortal, just like us.

What do you identify as Nature? Just that on the Earth, or everything in the Universe?

Technosoul · Jan 27, 2007, 11:25 pm

I would include earth (life) as well as the total universe.

Nature is motal but the universe has been here as long as anything else and nature has been here at least since the beginning of humanity or our fore-figures. Although individual things in nature die the over-all reality of nature continues on and on, as far as we know, without an end yet in site (factually).
As does the "outer space universe".

Now I am speaking about nature as God relative to standing in awe of nature and the universe (as being connected) in the same manner as religion claims to stand in awe of their concpet about God. And viewing nature and the universe as our "source" of being.

I am not advocating you join one of the historical belief systems such as Wicca, Native American, Shamanism, or even the TAO religions of the far east. Because they conduct riturals and so forth that you might not feel comfortable doing. Which is all about communicating with nature, with the understanding or beleif that nature and the universe is a "network of communication". Magnetic communication, chemical communication, sound communication, and so forth and so on. But you do not have to talk to trees, do a raindance, or get naked in the moonlight to honor nature as the Supreme Being realitive to it's totality and diverse individualities. Nor must you smoke weed in order to hornor nature.

Wicca nowadays is directed at self empowerment (mainly for females) and most of the web sites are a business selling all kinds of materialistic items. Witches also like to shop til they drop.

I do not object if one wishes to join one of those belief systems or if one wishess to join the scientific comminity after that moment of wonderment when they stood in awe of the all mighty universe and and said "wow".

Why concentrate on "invsible gods" when we got the real thing right in front of our eyes? The sum total of the natural is supernatual.

another day · Jan 28, 2007, 12:47 am

Quote:

Quote by: The_Genius

Nature is mortal, just like us.

nature and reality are one and the same. Hence nature is immortal.

and yes, nature/reality is my idea of god, but it is not befitting of the "god" label in any way whatsoever.

nm420 · Jan 28, 2007, 11:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Technosoul

Why not teach that Nature is god?

It is much easier to control people when you subvert their critical faculties with fanciful tales asserted to be the absolute, unquestionable truth. If people could have a direct relationship with God, then all the clergy of the world would be made irrelevant, and they won't give up their power without a fight.

**Jack** · Jan 28, 2007, 11:53 pm

I would not worship nature any more than I'd worship a god. Most gods are reported to need worship.

Praxius · Jan 29, 2007, 12:35 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I would not worship nature any more than I'd worship a god. Most gods are reported to need worship.

Unless Nature tells you to, then don't..... if some human tells you, you need to goto Nature church and put money in the collection, kick them in their natural balls.

I consider Nature as being immortal, because everything that happens in the Universe is Natural for the universe, aka: Nature.

Fonceai · Jan 29, 2007, 12:44 pm

Worshiping nature is also not for me.

I have a very healthy respect for trying to understand it and what it's capable of doing to me.

Of course, that's also how I feel about god as well...

Technosoul · Jan 29, 2007, 07:05 pm

The good thing about nature is that it does not expect nor demand you to worship it.

And so this is not about worshipping nature, it is about comprehending that Nature ( as we witness life on earth and as we witness the universe, and all that is related to that) is a non-mythological reality and we are in the image of nature, otherwise our image would be unseen and non-comprehendable.

It is okay if you wish to worship "what should be" but you should also honor what is. And "what is" is Nature. If you wish to have a difination for a God or Goddess then why not admit that it is "Mother Nature" or the Universe. (or both as the "Only One"}. You do not have to call this an absolute truth, but at least it is a self-evident truth.

Worship is a human activity we do for different phychological reasons, it is not mandatory if you are already phychologically "set" and not wanting.

Nonetheless, nature is the supreme essense of all that is natural and likewise all that is human. Nature is the land Lord and we are in it and it is in us, and that Lord of the land is the Land and all that dwells there-in. Fiction cannot over rule the fact.

loser · Jan 30, 2007, 07:57 am

Nature is a made-up word representing life and, therefore, God. The laws of Nature are the laws of God. Nature can't do anything except as God has designed it to do. Anytime you use the word Nature you are merely avoiding addressing God. If you will substitute the word God everytime you want to say Nature, you will be on the right track. By personalizing God, He will become a member of your family (or vice-versa) and He might let you borrow the car.

Praxius · Jan 30, 2007, 10:59 am

Quote:

Quote by: loser

Nature is a made-up word representing life and, therefore, God. The laws of Nature are the laws of God. Nature can't do anything except as God has designed it to do. Anytime you use the word Nature you are merely avoiding addressing God. If you will substitute the word God everytime you want to say Nature, you will be on the right track. By personalizing God, He will become a member of your family (or vice-versa) and He might let you borrow the car.

............. Riiiiiggghhttt.......

In some religions, Nature and Earth are just the playing fields for Satan and God.... AKA a small part of everything.

Stating your opinion as you did above, is just arrogant.... as if you know it all or something. You came to your conclusion and made it sound absolute without any evidence to back yourself up, besides the whole "God said so, so I believe." attitude.

But I'm not about to start this topic down that road.

loser · Jan 31, 2007, 04:09 am

You know, P (is it okay to address you as P?), I re-read my post after reading yours and I can see where you would get that. I DO speak with such an air of authority as if it is God Himself speaking. I might need to tone it down a bit...no wonder I bruise so many toes (read that 'feelings').

It's just that I am so cocksure and really never question (doubt) a lot of the things that I say with such confidence. I don't mean to sound so arrogant but I do probably just because I am (blame it on my mamma). I have been called a "know-it-all" a lot more than once (I do speak with such authority!) but my favorite nickname was "Mr. Wizard" (a nicer ring, don't you think?).

One thing I'm not, however, is a LIAR (at least, not intentionally). If you're right and I'm wrong, I'll tell you so.

Didn't I tell you so?

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Most people just bow up, get angry, and quit talking to me. Here I was thinking about how nice a guy I was and all the time sounding like a jerk. Humbleness and humility would go a long way in making this bitter pill just a little easier to swallow.

I told you so!

Praxius · Jan 31, 2007, 10:41 am

Well I'm not trying to attack your view, but as you said, it's sometimes the bold "My way or the highway" attitude, which I used to have and I still do at times, depending on my devotion to the topic..... which you have done also, so it's all good.

And don't feel bad.... my sister's online name is "knowitall" ~ It runs in the family.

another day · Jan 31, 2007, 03:48 pm

Quote:

Quote by: loser

Nature is a made-up word representing life and, therefore, God. The laws of Nature are the laws of God. Nature can't do anything except as God has designed it to do. Anytime you use the word Nature you are merely avoiding addressing God. If you will substitute the word God everytime you want to say Nature, you will be on the right track. By personalizing God, He will become a member of your family (or vice-versa) and He might let you borrow the car.

God is a made up word representing life, and therefore nature. The laws of God are really the laws of nature. Anytime you use the word God you are merely addressing nature. If you will substitute nature everytime you want to say God, you will be on the right track. By personalizing god, you are becoming a delusional cultist.

Technosoul · Jan 31, 2007, 08:00 pm

Not sure what you mean by personalizing god (and you used non-capital let G for a reason?). Nature is more then a word, that is evident because it is our enviornment. Each thing living in nature has it own individual law that it conforms to automatically, with a tiny degree of free will (in some cases). The law of it's own nature, which somehow connects or blends in with the rest of what is happening in the environment. I am not sure if you have suggested that a God outside of nature created the laws that govern nature? As perhaps I might find that debatable as it would not fit the idea I expressed in my O.P.

We humans have created "personalized" things through the science of genetics - like designer tomatos, or a turkey that has more white meat then do those same kinds of birds that live in the wild. Inside our house we have created our own "designer environment" - controlling the temperature and so forth. And each church has it's own "designer God" which is how they would interpret what such a god should be like, or how they interpret the Bible or some other religious text.

In other words I am not clear about the meaning of those statements.

Now on another subject that came up. We often confuse "speaking with passion" and "speaking with an air of authority" (as a know it all). There is a difference I think. If one speaks with passion they seem to be absolutly sure about that they are saying. Being absolutly sure is different then claiming to be presenting an absolute truth that you can proove. We can hardly expect people to debate a topic if they have great doubts about their personal opinons on that topic. As Davy Crockett said (in the Dinsney movie) - "be sure you are right, then go ahead". Being sure is simply a matter of trusting your self and your own abilty to see things honestly. But not every tree is like every other tree, the branches go every which way (when not trimmed by humans) and you cannot tell which tree is imperfect or which one is growing their branches correctly, because right and wrong would not be applicable. The same is so with opinons.

Now back to the topic at hand... I am not suggesting that we compare nature and the biblical concepts of a God to see if they "match". Nature is a different kind of god then the biblical God. In the nature concept we can compare life with a human family. The spirit in the sky ( AKA the sun, and other influences) would be the "heavenly father" and earth (soil and water) would be " mother earth". The rays of the sun then cause life to be born within the womb of mother earth, and thus, life comes forth. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see such a self-evident truth - which is as close to absolute as you can get. If life does not come forth in the virginity of springtime then you got no next generation of life. It is an on-going creationary process happening.

If you do not worship that fact with a lot of attention and thought then you must have a dull sex life that is not all that reproductive of the "natural". Which makes you an alien of nature and the internal laws of human nature.

Jan 26, 2007, 04:55 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936	Mother Nature as God? Why not teach that Nature is god? We have evidence and lots of proof that nature is the creative source of our being here. We have evidence that Nature can control if we live or die. And that we are in fact dependant upon it. Nature as a god has a long standing history as a belief systems, dating back to some of the most primitive religions of paganism and shamanism. Not even a scientist would need to employ "faith" to agree that Nature is the Sourcer for our life and being. So why not just admit it? Nature might not be 'one identity" or "one mind" but might be a united collection of things that have adapted to each other to formulate the totality of exsistance. That might be one objection of this theory - but need it be? But even if people wish to believe it is "One Intelligence" that has become departmentalized others could hold a different interpretation but it would still be what a God is invisoned as represent. Nature is not a myth - it is as real as sunshine and as real as an earthworm. So it would seem everyone should just "convert" to this more factual version of our "God" (in a non-gender application of the word). Right?

Jan 27, 2007, 03:47 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
The_Genius ~Ruthless Debater~ Location: Cape Town, South Africa. Posts: 433	Nature is mortal, just like us. www.islamawareness.net

Jan 28, 2007, 11:53 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209	I would not worship nature any more than I'd worship a god. Most gods are reported to need worship. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jan 30, 2007, 07:57 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
loser Logic User Location: Ether Posts: 737	Nature is a made-up word representing life and, therefore, God. The laws of Nature are the laws of God. Nature can't do anything except as God has designed it to do. Anytime you use the word Nature you are merely avoiding addressing God. If you will substitute the word God everytime you want to say Nature, you will be on the right track. By personalizing God, He will become a member of your family (or vice-versa) and He might let you borrow the car. My faith is stirred but never shaken. I'm the proof that evolution works... You're the proof that it doesn't. Political correctness teaches our children to be DECEITFUL!

Jan 31, 2007, 04:09 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
loser Logic User Location: Ether Posts: 737	You know, P (is it okay to address you as P?), I re-read my post after reading yours and I can see where you would get that. I DO speak with such an air of authority as if it is God Himself speaking. I might need to tone it down a bit...no wonder I bruise so many toes (read that 'feelings'). It's just that I am so cocksure and really never question (doubt) a lot of the things that I say with such confidence. I don't mean to sound so arrogant but I do probably just because I am (blame it on my mamma). I have been called a "know-it-all" a lot more than once (I do speak with such authority!) but my favorite nickname was "Mr. Wizard" (a nicer ring, don't you think?). One thing I'm not, however, is a LIAR (at least, not intentionally). If you're right and I'm wrong, I'll tell you so. Didn't I tell you so? Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Most people just bow up, get angry, and quit talking to me. Here I was thinking about how nice a guy I was and all the time sounding like a jerk. Humbleness and humility would go a long way in making this bitter pill just a little easier to swallow. I told you so! My faith is stirred but never shaken. I'm the proof that evolution works... You're the proof that it doesn't. Political correctness teaches our children to be DECEITFUL!

Jan 26, 2007, 05:03 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,730	I agree... but are you talking about everybody adopting Wicca? Wicca

Jan 27, 2007, 11:25 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936	I would include earth (life) as well as the total universe. Nature is motal but the universe has been here as long as anything else and nature has been here at least since the beginning of humanity or our fore-figures. Although individual things in nature die the over-all reality of nature continues on and on, as far as we know, without an end yet in site (factually). As does the "outer space universe". Now I am speaking about nature as God relative to standing in awe of nature and the universe (as being connected) in the same manner as religion claims to stand in awe of their concpet about God. And viewing nature and the universe as our "source" of being. I am not advocating you join one of the historical belief systems such as Wicca, Native American, Shamanism, or even the TAO religions of the far east. Because they conduct riturals and so forth that you might not feel comfortable doing. Which is all about communicating with nature, with the understanding or beleif that nature and the universe is a "network of communication". Magnetic communication, chemical communication, sound communication, and so forth and so on. But you do not have to talk to trees, do a raindance, or get naked in the moonlight to honor nature as the Supreme Being realitive to it's totality and diverse individualities. Nor must you smoke weed in order to hornor nature. Wicca nowadays is directed at self empowerment (mainly for females) and most of the web sites are a business selling all kinds of materialistic items. Witches also like to shop til they drop. I do not object if one wishes to join one of those belief systems or if one wishess to join the scientific comminity after that moment of wonderment when they stood in awe of the all mighty universe and and said "wow". Why concentrate on "invsible gods" when we got the real thing right in front of our eyes? The sum total of the natural is supernatual.

Jan 29, 2007, 12:44 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Worshiping nature is also not for me. I have a very healthy respect for trying to understand it and what it's capable of doing to me. Of course, that's also how I feel about god as well...

Jan 29, 2007, 07:05 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936	The good thing about nature is that it does not expect nor demand you to worship it. And so this is not about worshipping nature, it is about comprehending that Nature ( as we witness life on earth and as we witness the universe, and all that is related to that) is a non-mythological reality and we are in the image of nature, otherwise our image would be unseen and non-comprehendable. It is okay if you wish to worship "what should be" but you should also honor what is. And "what is" is Nature. If you wish to have a difination for a God or Goddess then why not admit that it is "Mother Nature" or the Universe. (or both as the "Only One"}. You do not have to call this an absolute truth, but at least it is a self-evident truth. Worship is a human activity we do for different phychological reasons, it is not mandatory if you are already phychologically "set" and not wanting. Nonetheless, nature is the supreme essense of all that is natural and likewise all that is human. Nature is the land Lord and we are in it and it is in us, and that Lord of the land is the Land and all that dwells there-in. Fiction cannot over rule the fact.

Jan 31, 2007, 10:41 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
Praxius Mass'Debator Posts: 4,730	Well I'm not trying to attack your view, but as you said, it's sometimes the bold "My way or the highway" attitude, which I used to have and I still do at times, depending on my devotion to the topic..... which you have done also, so it's all good. And don't feel bad.... my sister's online name is "knowitall" ~ It runs in the family.

Jan 31, 2007, 08:00 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936	Not sure what you mean by personalizing god (and you used non-capital let G for a reason?). Nature is more then a word, that is evident because it is our enviornment. Each thing living in nature has it own individual law that it conforms to automatically, with a tiny degree of free will (in some cases). The law of it's own nature, which somehow connects or blends in with the rest of what is happening in the environment. I am not sure if you have suggested that a God outside of nature created the laws that govern nature? As perhaps I might find that debatable as it would not fit the idea I expressed in my O.P. We humans have created "personalized" things through the science of genetics - like designer tomatos, or a turkey that has more white meat then do those same kinds of birds that live in the wild. Inside our house we have created our own "designer environment" - controlling the temperature and so forth. And each church has it's own "designer God" which is how they would interpret what such a god should be like, or how they interpret the Bible or some other religious text. In other words I am not clear about the meaning of those statements. Now on another subject that came up. We often confuse "speaking with passion" and "speaking with an air of authority" (as a know it all). There is a difference I think. If one speaks with passion they seem to be absolutly sure about that they are saying. Being absolutly sure is different then claiming to be presenting an absolute truth that you can proove. We can hardly expect people to debate a topic if they have great doubts about their personal opinons on that topic. As Davy Crockett said (in the Dinsney movie) - "be sure you are right, then go ahead". Being sure is simply a matter of trusting your self and your own abilty to see things honestly. But not every tree is like every other tree, the branches go every which way (when not trimmed by humans) and you cannot tell which tree is imperfect or which one is growing their branches correctly, because right and wrong would not be applicable. The same is so with opinons. Now back to the topic at hand... I am not suggesting that we compare nature and the biblical concepts of a God to see if they "match". Nature is a different kind of god then the biblical God. In the nature concept we can compare life with a human family. The spirit in the sky ( AKA the sun, and other influences) would be the "heavenly father" and earth (soil and water) would be " mother earth". The rays of the sun then cause life to be born within the womb of mother earth, and thus, life comes forth. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see such a self-evident truth - which is as close to absolute as you can get. If life does not come forth in the virginity of springtime then you got no next generation of life. It is an on-going creationary process happening. If you do not worship that fact with a lot of attention and thought then you must have a dull sex life that is not all that reproductive of the "natural". Which makes you an alien of nature and the internal laws of human nature.