Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

PatrickHenry · Jan 22, 2007, 06:03 pm

Many intellectuals fear this term, this label. Not I.

Who will deny that conspiracies exist? Only a fool like the (now banned) member Nurse Sheep.

But we all know that they exist; criminal conspiracies are prosecuted by our justice system. A conspiracy is simply a secret agreement between two or more persons to engage in a criminal act. Nothing new or revolutionary.

And since they are SECRET, they are subject to theorizing based upon evidence. Hence absent a credible sworn confession by a participant, every conspiracy is in fact a conspiracy theory.

Why do I call your attention to such a topic?

Because there is no greater turning point in modern history than the events of September 11, 2001. And I submit that the evidence for my conspiracy theory is more convincing than the evidence for the official conspiracy theory.

The official story is flawed at the level of the physical evidence, since steel framed buildings do not completely collapse due to fire. This is a confirmed historical fact. The WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7 were demolished with explosive charges. The demolition explosions are clearly visible to one who observes the collapse sequences closely. Conservation of momentum is one of the physics principles that is not taken into account by the official conspiracy theory.

It is also flawed from many historical perspectives. Many warnings by foreign governments and US intelligence were ignored by the administration.The SS was nonchalant when they were presented with evidence of a security breach against the nation and the President's location was exposed to the attackers. The response of NORAD was historically anomalous as well. All previous hijacks of airliners were met by combat air patrols.

http://carolynbaker.org/archives/911...-carolyn-baker

So, my question for the forum is this: Why do you choose your particular conspiracy theory? :eek:

Osborn F Enready · Jan 22, 2007, 06:08 pm

I choose the one I have been accused of having, because it is the most logical, most likely, most "profittable", by the greatest number from which I have seen. The overlay of history, fits. The overlay of facts, fit. The Constitutional flaws, fit, and most importantly, it perfectly fits human nature.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 06:13 pm

I choose it because it, as Osborn says, fits human nature and doesn't assume super powerful and omnipotent Government "organisations".

By the way, if your conspiracy theory existed, don't you think you'd be dead by now, I mean, america's actually listening to people like you. If I was in charge of the "organisation" I'd have you capped.

Osborn F Enready · Jan 22, 2007, 06:27 pm

I defend myself well.

I am battle them equally, daily.

As of now, there are only threats and partial promises of infringing on my rights, personally. I battle them with equal and opposite reaction with written and verbal information campaigns to awaken my fellow citizens.

Once they move to take action to infringe on my rights, personally, or en-masse, I will also react equal, but opposite.

Their power resides in peoples will to buy into the threat, the lies and the myths, and that is all that gives them power over the people, for whom their fear is equal.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 06:29 pm

I was actually talking to pat, should've been more specific. And from what I know about you osborn, I'm sure you'd make a spectacular blaze of glory when the Government took you out.

Osborn F Enready · Jan 22, 2007, 06:32 pm

Or, would it be the spark that ignited the combustible that is government?

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 06:33 pm

Indeed, I'd make you the hero for the revolution against the facist overlords! I'd be the leader, of course :) now who else could we get?...

Osborn F Enready · Jan 23, 2007, 08:27 pm

Quote:

Gods Merc said:
Indeed, I'd make you the hero for the revolution against the facist overlords! I'd be the leader, of course now who else could we get?...

Droll.

Clarence · Jan 23, 2007, 11:57 pm

Quote:

I choose the one I have been accused of having, because it is the most logical, most likely, most "profittable", by the greatest number from which I have seen. The overlay of history, fits. The overlay of facts, fit. The Constitutional flaws, fit, and most importantly, it perfectly fits human nature.

As of now, there are only threats and partial promises of infringing on my rights, personally. I battle them with equal and opposite reaction with written and verbal information campaigns to awaken my fellow citizens.

second

Quote:

If I was in charge of the "organisation" I'd have you capped.

That's basically something we should expect. I stay wide open and vulnerable on principle. I don't where the line in the sand is yet. Many of us are well known for our pov's.

Quote:

america's actually listening to people like you.

the sad thing is, I wish we were wrong about the whole thing. It's like when you grow so cold it's warm and there's that temptation to just succomb to the warmth and take a nap. Everytime, there's some sign of life from the people. be it a news article or personal experience or disney movie (don't ask) that makes me feel obligated to continue and say what I'm thinking cuz it just might help.

On topic, the bottom line for me is this. The globalist totalitarian movement, people are describing on teh interwebs, has moved outside of conspiracy by definition. I see powerful muscles being flexed all up in our optical. I look to my left and right and there's many people standing wide-eyed while most sleeping fitful sleep. unaware and innocent. There is finally enough people who are watching to consider. 'Conspiracy' has negative stgmata. To many conspiracy theory means false. I wish more people understood what Pat says

Quote:

A conspiracy is simply a secret agreement between two or more persons to engage in a criminal act. Nothing new or revolutionary.

Osborn F Enready · Jan 24, 2007, 12:54 pm

Quote:

Clarence said:
I wish more people understood what Pat says

I agree Clarence.

Zhavric · Jan 24, 2007, 01:49 pm

Conspiracy theory is unspeak (doublespeak maybe?) for one of two terms:

1) An actual event with evidence which a group wishes to portray as fictional. Example: The Watergate scandal began as a conspiracy theory of a pair of reporters.

2) A fictional event without evidence which a group wishes to portray as actual. Example: The "existence" of WMD's in Iraq.

The only way to discern one from the other is with evidence & by safeguarding against considering propaganda as proof.

Clarence · Jan 24, 2007, 02:53 pm

Is that true?

Zhavric · Jan 24, 2007, 04:57 pm

Yes.

I gave specific examples which contain their own evidence (in the form of the utter lack of WMD's in Iraq and Nixon's resignation).

Clarence · Jan 25, 2007, 12:41 am

this topic is in philosophy and religion Pat?

Eclipse · Jan 25, 2007, 02:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

I choose the one I have been accused of having, because it is the most logical, most likely, most "profittable", by the greatest number from which I have seen. The overlay of history, fits. The overlay of facts, fit. The Constitutional flaws, fit, and most importantly, it perfectly fits human nature.

What he said. For the most part.

I sometimes get into certain theories like they're my drug or escape from reality. Those ones are just cognitive play and I don't make huge deals of 'em.

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

By the way, if your conspiracy theory existed, don't you think you'd be dead by now, I mean, america's actually listening to people like you. If I was in charge of the "organisation" I'd have you capped.

"Audacity, always audacity." ~ The crackhead card. Or various others. If they had to close the doors on all the suspicious people, which they may have tried in history, you'd have a lot of people dead and a lot more suspicious people. Better to play your hand with the poker face.

Eclipse · Jan 25, 2007, 02:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Terry Goodkind

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.”

- Terry Goodkind

PatrickHenry · Jan 26, 2007, 03:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Clarence

this topic is in philosophy and religion Pat?

Yes, I think this forum is appropriate, because I am asking why people think as they do. I am not pushing for folks to accept my version of conspiracy, but to look closely at their own thought processes.

Clarence · Jan 26, 2007, 03:59 pm

Yeah, it makes sense Pat. I dunno why I was being thick that day.

On topic. After the Libby trial and whatever else comes outta this. Soon people will be able to believe anything when talking about conspiracies. Then, some of the negative connotations of CT will be gone. But it's not a good thing for us when people could believe anything. We could be building to that moment. I wonder what's in store?

Jan 22, 2007, 06:03 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	Conspiracy Theory Many intellectuals fear this term, this label. Not I. Who will deny that conspiracies exist? Only a fool like the (now banned) member Nurse Sheep. But we all know that they exist; criminal conspiracies are prosecuted by our justice system. A conspiracy is simply a secret agreement between two or more persons to engage in a criminal act. Nothing new or revolutionary. And since they are SECRET, they are subject to theorizing based upon evidence. Hence absent a credible sworn confession by a participant, every conspiracy is in fact a conspiracy theory. Why do I call your attention to such a topic? Because there is no greater turning point in modern history than the events of September 11, 2001. And I submit that the evidence for my conspiracy theory is more convincing than the evidence for the official conspiracy theory. The official story is flawed at the level of the physical evidence, since steel framed buildings do not completely collapse due to fire. This is a confirmed historical fact. The WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7 were demolished with explosive charges. The demolition explosions are clearly visible to one who observes the collapse sequences closely. Conservation of momentum is one of the physics principles that is not taken into account by the official conspiracy theory. It is also flawed from many historical perspectives. Many warnings by foreign governments and US intelligence were ignored by the administration.The SS was nonchalant when they were presented with evidence of a security breach against the nation and the President's location was exposed to the attackers. The response of NORAD was historically anomalous as well. All previous hijacks of airliners were met by combat air patrols. http://carolynbaker.org/archives/911...-carolyn-baker So, my question for the forum is this: Why do you choose your particular conspiracy theory? :eek: "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Jan 22, 2007, 06:08 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,922	I choose the one I have been accused of having, because it is the most logical, most likely, most "profittable", by the greatest number from which I have seen. The overlay of history, fits. The overlay of facts, fit. The Constitutional flaws, fit, and most importantly, it perfectly fits human nature. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Jan 22, 2007, 06:13 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,361	I choose it because it, as Osborn says, fits human nature and doesn't assume super powerful and omnipotent Government "organisations". By the way, if your conspiracy theory existed, don't you think you'd be dead by now, I mean, america's actually listening to people like you. If I was in charge of the "organisation" I'd have you capped. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 22, 2007, 06:27 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,922	I defend myself well. I am battle them equally, daily. As of now, there are only threats and partial promises of infringing on my rights, personally. I battle them with equal and opposite reaction with written and verbal information campaigns to awaken my fellow citizens. Once they move to take action to infringe on my rights, personally, or en-masse, I will also react equal, but opposite. Their power resides in peoples will to buy into the threat, the lies and the myths, and that is all that gives them power over the people, for whom their fear is equal. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Jan 22, 2007, 06:29 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,361	I was actually talking to pat, should've been more specific. And from what I know about you osborn, I'm sure you'd make a spectacular blaze of glory when the Government took you out. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 22, 2007, 06:32 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,922	Or, would it be the spark that ignited the combustible that is government? Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Jan 22, 2007, 06:33 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,361	Indeed, I'd make you the hero for the revolution against the facist overlords! I'd be the leader, of course :) now who else could we get?... “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 24, 2007, 01:49 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,809	Conspiracy theory is unspeak (doublespeak maybe?) for one of two terms: 1) An actual event with evidence which a group wishes to portray as fictional. Example: The Watergate scandal began as a conspiracy theory of a pair of reporters. 2) A fictional event without evidence which a group wishes to portray as actual. Example: The "existence" of WMD's in Iraq. The only way to discern one from the other is with evidence & by safeguarding against considering propaganda as proof. Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

Jan 24, 2007, 02:53 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,419	Is that true?

Jan 24, 2007, 04:57 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,809	Yes. I gave specific examples which contain their own evidence (in the form of the utter lack of WMD's in Iraq and Nixon's resignation). Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

Jan 25, 2007, 12:41 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,419	this topic is in philosophy and religion Pat?

Jan 26, 2007, 03:59 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,419	Yeah, it makes sense Pat. I dunno why I was being thick that day. On topic. After the Libby trial and whatever else comes outta this. Soon people will be able to believe anything when talking about conspiracies. Then, some of the negative connotations of CT will be gone. But it's not a good thing for us when people could believe anything. We could be building to that moment. I wonder what's in store?