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Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 11:04 am

All you just did was reject Catholicism.

What about the rest of Christianity?

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 11:21 am

I'm going to assume you didn't read the second post wherein I discussed the gospels & the personhood of Jesus. About the only flavor of Christianity I HAVEN'T addressed are gnostics who believe Jesus was a spirit & not an actual person.

Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 11:42 am

I read it.

Only Catholicism really holds true to everything Gospel and Biblical.

The non-Catholic denominations, technically all Protestant, all hold to some or even none of the Bible texts. Some actually acknowledge that the Bible is a book of parables not to be taken literally.

That's why the reasons you state are really only valid against Catholicism and not all of Christianity.

shunyadragon · Jan 22, 2007, 01:28 pm

Quote:

Quote by: dthmstr254

we never said God was a chess player. God is a king and we are the citizens of his kingdom.

The chessplayer is the analogy of just what you described here. Your anthropomorphic description is of a king waging a war of chess against the black pieces, and reflects an ancient Iron Age Empire view that is dangerous and a threat to the future of humanity.

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 01:46 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

That's why the reasons you state are really only valid against Catholicism and not all of Christianity.

So then you'd agree with the statement "Only Catholics believe Jesus Christ was an actual person", yes?

Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 01:48 pm

You and your silly, leading questions.

No, I wouldn't. Why would "only" Catholics think that?

Jews and Muslims might think he was an actual person. A completely atheist might think he was an actual person, just not a divine one.

You really need to quit asking questions and just make your point instead.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 01:55 pm

So what if there were many jesuses, you've proven that many have existed, not that one never existed

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 01:58 pm

Oh, I do. I could state "the sky appears blue", but we both know you'd find issue. I hesitate to think how you'd respond if I asked "What color does the sky appear to be to most people?" Likely, it would be "You really need to quit asking questions and just make your point instead" or "You and your silly, leading questions."

The point is the gospel Jesus never existed & the gospels are works of fiction based on rabble rousing rabbis we know of from Josephus and earlier works of mythology like Mithras. Why you think this a problem only for only Catholics is beyond me. It's an issue for any & every Christian who believes in a literal New Testament... which I can tell you without looking anywhere includes Evangelicals & Baptists most of whom want nothing to do with Catholocism.

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 01:59 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

So what if there were many jesuses, you've proven that many have existed, not that one never existed

Negatory.

I have provided the basis for the gospel Jesus and evidenced the existence of "Jesus cults" before and during the era alleged to be the time of Jesus.

Furthermore, there's independent testimony for these extra Jesuses (Jesi?). There is no independent corroboration for the gospels and considerable counter-evidence such as the silence of Philo of Alexandria on Jesus & Athenagoras' second century description of Christianity that barely mentions Jesus.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 02:00 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

I read it.

Only Catholicism really holds true to everything Gospel and Biblical.

The non-Catholic denominations, technically all Protestant, all hold to some or even none of the Bible texts. Some actually acknowledge that the Bible is a book of parables not to be taken literally.

That's why the reasons you state are really only valid against Catholicism and not all of Christianity.

Where did you get this information? Catholicism is often critiscized by protestants for its flexible reading of the bible. That's one of the major beefs with catholicism, they don't read a large amount of the Bible litteraly.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 02:02 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zhavric

Negatory.

I have provided the basis for the gospel Jesus and evidenced the existence of "Jesus cults" before and during the era alleged to be the time of Jesus.

So, that proves that there were cults predating him, not that He never existed.

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 02:04 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

So, that proves that there were cults predating him, not that He never existed.

You're too quick for me, Sir. Please check my edited post above.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 02:06 pm

Granted, you've made your point that it's a long shot, maybe rediculously so, but if someone can believe in Him rising from the dead, they will be able to ignore the long odds.

Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 02:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Z

Why you think this a problem only for only Catholics is beyond me. It's an issue for any & every Christian who believes in a literal New Testament... which I can tell you without looking anywhere includes Evangelicals & Baptists most of whom want nothing to do with Catholocism.

So that leaves out the Christians who don't believe in a literal New Testament. I'm thinking your trying so hard to be right that you're missing certain words in the statements you're quoting.

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_M

Where did you get this information? Catholicism is often critiscized by protestants for its flexible reading of the bible. That's one of the major beefs with catholicism, they don't read a large amount of the Bible litteraly.

The criticism of Catholics is, I think, due to the matter of interpretation versus actual practice; the hypocracy of Catholicism.

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 02:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

The criticism of Catholics is, I think, due to the matter of interpretation versus actual practice; the hypocracy of Catholicism.

It's due to the fact that it's Catholic doctrine that the Bible can be flawed when read litteraly and cannot be read that way in many parts.

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 02:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary

Granted, you've made your point that it's a long shot, maybe rediculously so, but if someone can believe in Him rising from the dead, they will be able to ignore the long odds.

If it's quite obvious to you that the gospels are fabrications (the foundation for believing anything about Jesus) why on Earth would you believe Jesus helped people rise from the dead?

Which is another absurdity. It's not mentioned in all the gospels. It's not mentioned by anyone alive at the time. It's mentioned as nearly an afterthought which we never come back to in the NT. If Jesus had existed & had raised people from the dead, I daresay it would have warrented a bit more than a paragraph of text...

Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 02:20 pm

Interesting.

Do You Read the Bible Literally?

It occurs to me that there might be some confusion about the word "literal"

I intended it to mean that they believe everything in the Bible was true and that the supernatural powers are either divine manifestation.

I've never once heard that true Catholics think the Bible is flawed.

Zhavric · Jan 22, 2007, 02:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

So that leaves out the Christians who don't believe in a literal New Testament. I'm thinking your trying so hard to be right that you're missing certain words in the statements you're quoting.

If you don't believe Jesus was an actual person & didn't sacrifice himself on the cross, why on Earth would you consider yourself a Christian?

Gods_Mercenary · Jan 22, 2007, 02:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Fonceai

Interesting.

Do You Read the Bible Literally?

It occurs to me that there might be some confusion about the word "literal"

I intended it to mean that they believe everything in the Bible was true and that the supernatural powers are either divine manifestation.

I've never once heard that true Catholics think the Bible is flawed.

They don't think that the Bible is flawed, but that it is poetic and often cannot be taken litteraly, whereas many other christians think that it should be read litteraly as if it came down from heaven.

Fonceai · Jan 22, 2007, 02:26 pm

Because Christian means...

christian - Definitions from Dictionary.com

... following the teachings of Jesus Christ, or a person who follows are believes in those teachings.

No where in there does it say that you have to think Jesus was a real person.

I can just as easily say that I believe in the teachings of Mr. Rasczak from Starship Troopers, that doesn't mean I think he was a real person.

Jan 22, 2007, 11:21 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,808	I'm going to assume you didn't read the second post wherein I discussed the gospels & the personhood of Jesus. About the only flavor of Christianity I HAVEN'T addressed are gnostics who believe Jesus was a spirit & not an actual person. Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

Jan 22, 2007, 01:55 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,361	So what if there were many jesuses, you've proven that many have existed, not that one never existed “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 22, 2007, 01:58 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
Zhavric Made of pure win. Posts: 3,808	Oh, I do. I could state "the sky appears blue", but we both know you'd find issue. I hesitate to think how you'd respond if I asked "What color does the sky appear to be to most people?" Likely, it would be "You really need to quit asking questions and just make your point instead" or "You and your silly, leading questions." The point is the gospel Jesus never existed & the gospels are works of fiction based on rabble rousing rabbis we know of from Josephus and earlier works of mythology like Mithras. Why you think this a problem only for only Catholics is beyond me. It's an issue for any & every Christian who believes in a literal New Testament... which I can tell you without looking anywhere includes Evangelicals & Baptists most of whom want nothing to do with Catholocism. Theists: supplying volconvo with lose since 2004.

Jan 22, 2007, 02:06 pm	#33 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,361	Granted, you've made your point that it's a long shot, maybe rediculously so, but if someone can believe in Him rising from the dead, they will be able to ignore the long odds. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Jan 22, 2007, 11:04 am	#21 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	All you just did was reject Catholicism. What about the rest of Christianity?

Jan 22, 2007, 11:42 am	#23 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	I read it. Only Catholicism really holds true to everything Gospel and Biblical. The non-Catholic denominations, technically all Protestant, all hold to some or even none of the Bible texts. Some actually acknowledge that the Bible is a book of parables not to be taken literally. That's why the reasons you state are really only valid against Catholicism and not all of Christianity.

Jan 22, 2007, 01:48 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	You and your silly, leading questions. No, I wouldn't. Why would "only" Catholics think that? Jews and Muslims might think he was an actual person. A completely atheist might think he was an actual person, just not a divine one. You really need to quit asking questions and just make your point instead.

Jan 22, 2007, 02:20 pm	#37 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Interesting. Do You Read the Bible Literally? It occurs to me that there might be some confusion about the word "literal" I intended it to mean that they believe everything in the Bible was true and that the supernatural powers are either divine manifestation. I've never once heard that true Catholics think the Bible is flawed.

Jan 22, 2007, 02:26 pm	#40 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	Because Christian means... christian - Definitions from Dictionary.com ... following the teachings of Jesus Christ, or a person who follows are believes in those teachings. No where in there does it say that you have to think Jesus was a real person. I can just as easily say that I believe in the teachings of Mr. Rasczak from Starship Troopers, that doesn't mean I think he was a real person.