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The Danish · Feb 17, 2004, 01:06 am

I am a Christian theist. I believe that the Bible is the immutable word of God and Jesus as sole redeemer.

That said, I am not a Christian moralist that condemns things such as alcohol and tobacco for no good reason. Nor am I a legalist who believes that you must do X, and Y, but not Z to be counted righteous.

I am not the prototypical "Jesus is Awesome!" Bible thumper that the majority of Christendom is made out to be. Belief not gooey emotionalism, but must be based on reasonable fact.

I'm also not right all the time, and recognising this, try to be fairly openminded about most things.

peace
D

Automatic Nate · Feb 18, 2004, 04:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (the_anawim,)
Automatic Nate: I'm a Christian pacifist as well. I'd probably call myself a "christological pacifist" before an eschatological one, but eschatology is central to my system of belief. I just don't want to slip into the Niebuhrian fallacy of thinking that peace is an unattainable ideal on earth. I don't know if that's what you were implying, I was just stating my case.

At any rate, a great site dealing with violence/politics from a Christian perspective is The Ekklesia Project, if you're interested.

Take care.
Scott<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I'm a member of the Ekklesia Project. The webmaster, Kevin Poorman, lived on my floor when I was a resident assistant in college, and Dr. Kenneson was (and is) my intellectual and Christian mentor.

As far as eschatology goes, I simply put that qualifier on myself so that I'm never tempted to think that killing this person in particular is an exception that I can make just this one time--while I believe in ordering our life together peacefully has been made possible, I will not on the other hand kill those who threaten that peace.

sdcinder · Feb 22, 2004, 12:24 am

this one I have to disagree on... Regarding

[while I believe in ordering our life together peacefully has been made possible, I will not on the other hand kill those who threaten that peace. ]

I would have to say that a person has a pretty big chance of not surviving if they happen to threaten my peace and the peace of my family in an extremely violent and disruptive way. What I mean is, that it is my duty as a parent to protect my children and spouse by any means possible if mortal danger is imminent and I know it. I am also stricken with the protection of their mental and emotional safetey as well but that is not exactly relevant to the above statement.

I am the Gatekeeper for my family and there are times which could arise in which I must use all the tools available to me to protect them.

Automatic Nate · Feb 23, 2004, 03:40 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (sdcinder,)
I would have to say that a person has a pretty big chance of not surviving if they happen to threaten my peace and the peace of my family in an extremely violent and disruptive way. What I mean is, that it is my duty as a parent to protect my children and spouse by any means possible if mortal danger is imminent and I know it. I am also stricken with the protection of their mental and emotional safetey as well but that is not exactly relevant to the above statement.

I am the Gatekeeper for my family and there are times which could arise in which I must use all the tools available to me to protect them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
A fair enough argument, and you are right that you and I disagree. I hold that God is enough of a "Gatekeeper" that I do not need to decide who to kill and who not to when considering my wife's (no kids yet) safety. Knowing my wife as I do, I'm confident that either of us would die faithfully and thus do not order my life around the fear of one of our deaths. Instead, we both have chosen to live such that anyone who would see might know that the love of Christ has overcome fear, at least to the extent that we've been willing to let God's love overcome that fear (I do admit that I don't know what would happen should one of the apparently common doomsday intruder-with-a-pistol situations would come up; I only hope that I would remain faithful).

Spyder Jerusalem · Feb 23, 2004, 09:25 pm

I am an existentialist atheist.
I place very little value on anything, including human life.
The christers and the mooslims are all full of shit, and their "faiths" are superstitious at best and downright dangerous at worst, and I live every day hoping that more and more people will see the lie and bring about their downfall.
It is the only thing that will keep our world livable, after the theists are through trashing everything in the name of their "god".
Down with superstition!

Automatic Nate · Feb 24, 2004, 11:09 am

No value on human life, yet you seem to have a rather large fear of the "death" of "our world." If life ain't all that valuable, where's the "danger" of much of anything?

Spyder Jerusalem · Feb 26, 2004, 01:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,)
No value on human life, yet you seem to have a rather large fear of the "death" of "our world." If life ain't all that valuable, where's the "danger" of much of anything?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
No, Nate, not death.
Just discomfort.
While I don't believe anything is "sacred", I want to be comfortable, and I assume other people do too.
As for the "unlivable" aspect to which I refer.
The world is a great place to live.
Because I don't believe in a soul, or any place after this life, this world to me, is it.
I resent the attitudes of those who say they believe in "god" but spend a lot of their time fuckin' up "his creation".
That hipocrisy affects me directly, since I don'thave a "heaven" to look forward to.
That's what pisses me off, see?
As for whether it "matters".
It doesn't, really.
So, why do I care?
Because I am a human, whose ability to actually live "existentially" is limited, that's why.
Really, why does anything matter at all?
That's just it, it doesn't.
It's what affects us that matters, and usually what we care about.
Selfish, I know, but also very human.
Get it?

Automatic Nate · Feb 28, 2004, 10:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Spyder Jerusalem,)

Just discomfort.
While I don't believe anything is "sacred", I want to be comfortable, and I assume other people do too.
As for the "unlivable" aspect to which I refer.
The world is a great place to live.
Because I don't believe in a soul, or any place after this life, this world to me, is it.
I resent the attitudes of those who say they believe in "god" but spend a lot of their time fuckin' up "his creation".
That hipocrisy affects me directly, since I don'thave a "heaven" to look forward to.
That's what pisses me off, see?
As for whether it "matters".
It doesn't, really.
So, why do I care?
Because I am a human, whose ability to actually live "existentially" is limited, that's why.
Really, why does anything matter at all?
That's just it, it doesn't.
It's what affects us that matters, and usually what we care about.
Selfish, I know, but also very human.
Get it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
I get it. What I don't get is how religion per se affects your comfort at all. Environmental issues (I think that's what you're alluding to) can fall under religion/anti-religion categories, but not necessarily. So I really don't get why you cite the death of religion as a "hope" (a couple posts ago). Unless, I suppose, attacking religion in online forums is the content of your happiness, in which case I'd repeat, so long as it gives you comfort, I'm not going to take that away from you. Party on.

marco_funk · Mar 8, 2004, 04:00 am

I have no personal philosophy... I have given my life and my thought over to Jesus Christ the Lord.
peace,
Marco

Automatic Nate · Mar 15, 2004, 03:11 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (marco_funk,)
I have no personal philosophy... I have given my life and my thought over to Jesus Christ the Lord.
peace,
Marco<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Okay, so nobody's biting on this one... I get the joke. Ha ha ha.

lostkiwi · Mar 20, 2004, 12:03 am

Well, if anyone was paying attention they'd know that I am an Objectivist and an Athiest by now.

I prefer to take the world as it is, and not try and force it into some man made fantisy.

If anyone is curious about Ayn Rands works I highly suggest Atlas Shrugged (though if the first 200 pages don't depress the hell out of you, you might be lost forever) and The Fountainhead.

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Mar 20, 2004, 10:50 am

I have read and enjoyed both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, I also practice a certain amount of Objectivism. But, as an Engineering major, I do not believe in absolutes. IMO: You must maintain them in logical structures in order for those structures to function, but you also must keep in mind that absolutes are a construction of humanity and therefore subject to a certain amount of drift.

Feb 18, 2004, 04:01 pm	#62 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (the_anawim,) Automatic Nate: I'm a Christian pacifist as well. I'd probably call myself a "christological pacifist" before an eschatological one, but eschatology is central to my system of belief. I just don't want to slip into the Niebuhrian fallacy of thinking that peace is an unattainable ideal on earth. I don't know if that's what you were implying, I was just stating my case. At any rate, a great site dealing with violence/politics from a Christian perspective is The Ekklesia Project, if you're interested. Take care. Scott<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I'm a member of the Ekklesia Project. The webmaster, Kevin Poorman, lived on my floor when I was a resident assistant in college, and Dr. Kenneson was (and is) my intellectual and Christian mentor. As far as eschatology goes, I simply put that qualifier on myself so that I'm never tempted to think that killing this person in particular is an exception that I can make just this one time--while I believe in ordering our life together peacefully has been made possible, I will not on the other hand kill those who threaten that peace. "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 22, 2004, 12:24 am	#63 (permalink) (top)
sdcinder Molten Ash Location: South Dakota Posts: 26	this one I have to disagree on... Regarding [while I believe in ordering our life together peacefully has been made possible, I will not on the other hand kill those who threaten that peace. ] I would have to say that a person has a pretty big chance of not surviving if they happen to threaten my peace and the peace of my family in an extremely violent and disruptive way. What I mean is, that it is my duty as a parent to protect my children and spouse by any means possible if mortal danger is imminent and I know it. I am also stricken with the protection of their mental and emotional safetey as well but that is not exactly relevant to the above statement. I am the Gatekeeper for my family and there are times which could arise in which I must use all the tools available to me to protect them. C. Bogue "There's room for all God's creatures, right next to the fried taters!"

Feb 23, 2004, 03:40 pm	#64 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (sdcinder,) I would have to say that a person has a pretty big chance of not surviving if they happen to threaten my peace and the peace of my family in an extremely violent and disruptive way. What I mean is, that it is my duty as a parent to protect my children and spouse by any means possible if mortal danger is imminent and I know it. I am also stricken with the protection of their mental and emotional safetey as well but that is not exactly relevant to the above statement. I am the Gatekeeper for my family and there are times which could arise in which I must use all the tools available to me to protect them.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> A fair enough argument, and you are right that you and I disagree. I hold that God is enough of a "Gatekeeper" that I do not need to decide who to kill and who not to when considering my wife's (no kids yet) safety. Knowing my wife as I do, I'm confident that either of us would die faithfully and thus do not order my life around the fear of one of our deaths. Instead, we both have chosen to live such that anyone who would see might know that the love of Christ has overcome fear, at least to the extent that we've been willing to let God's love overcome that fear (I do admit that I don't know what would happen should one of the apparently common doomsday intruder-with-a-pistol situations would come up; I only hope that I would remain faithful). "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 23, 2004, 09:25 pm	#65 (permalink) (top)
Spyder Jerusalem Molten Ash Location: The City, scoring dope. Posts: 31	I am an existentialist atheist. I place very little value on anything, including human life. The christers and the mooslims are all full of shit, and their "faiths" are superstitious at best and downright dangerous at worst, and I live every day hoping that more and more people will see the lie and bring about their downfall. It is the only thing that will keep our world livable, after the theists are through trashing everything in the name of their "god". Down with superstition! "A Kenyan man once said to me, 'You can get used to anything when money's involved.' He used to stick mice up his ass for twenty bucks a time."

Feb 24, 2004, 11:09 am	#66 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	No value on human life, yet you seem to have a rather large fear of the "death" of "our world." If life ain't all that valuable, where's the "danger" of much of anything? "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 17, 2004, 01:06 am	#61 (permalink) (top)
The Danish Sedimentary Rock Posts: 6	I am a Christian theist. I believe that the Bible is the immutable word of God and Jesus as sole redeemer. That said, I am not a Christian moralist that condemns things such as alcohol and tobacco for no good reason. Nor am I a legalist who believes that you must do X, and Y, but not Z to be counted righteous. I am not the prototypical "Jesus is Awesome!" Bible thumper that the majority of Christendom is made out to be. Belief not gooey emotionalism, but must be based on reasonable fact. I'm also not right all the time, and recognising this, try to be fairly openminded about most things. peace D

Feb 26, 2004, 01:06 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
Spyder Jerusalem Molten Ash Location: The City, scoring dope. Posts: 31	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,) No value on human life, yet you seem to have a rather large fear of the "death" of "our world." If life ain't all that valuable, where's the "danger" of much of anything?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No, Nate, not death. Just discomfort. While I don't believe anything is "sacred", I want to be comfortable, and I assume other people do too. As for the "unlivable" aspect to which I refer. The world is a great place to live. Because I don't believe in a soul, or any place after this life, this world to me, is it. I resent the attitudes of those who say they believe in "god" but spend a lot of their time fuckin' up "his creation". That hipocrisy affects me directly, since I don'thave a "heaven" to look forward to. That's what pisses me off, see? As for whether it "matters". It doesn't, really. So, why do I care? Because I am a human, whose ability to actually live "existentially" is limited, that's why. Really, why does anything matter at all? That's just it, it doesn't. It's what affects us that matters, and usually what we care about. Selfish, I know, but also very human. Get it? "A Kenyan man once said to me, 'You can get used to anything when money's involved.' He used to stick mice up his ass for twenty bucks a time."

Feb 28, 2004, 10:11 am	#68 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Spyder Jerusalem,) Just discomfort. While I don't believe anything is "sacred", I want to be comfortable, and I assume other people do too. As for the "unlivable" aspect to which I refer. The world is a great place to live. Because I don't believe in a soul, or any place after this life, this world to me, is it. I resent the attitudes of those who say they believe in "god" but spend a lot of their time fuckin' up "his creation". That hipocrisy affects me directly, since I don'thave a "heaven" to look forward to. That's what pisses me off, see? As for whether it "matters". It doesn't, really. So, why do I care? Because I am a human, whose ability to actually live "existentially" is limited, that's why. Really, why does anything matter at all? That's just it, it doesn't. It's what affects us that matters, and usually what we care about. Selfish, I know, but also very human. Get it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I get it. What I don't get is how religion per se affects your comfort at all. Environmental issues (I think that's what you're alluding to) can fall under religion/anti-religion categories, but not necessarily. So I really don't get why you cite the death of religion as a "hope" (a couple posts ago). Unless, I suppose, attacking religion in online forums is the content of your happiness, in which case I'd repeat, so long as it gives you comfort, I'm not going to take that away from you. Party on. "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Mar 8, 2004, 04:00 am	#69 (permalink) (top)
marco_funk Molten Ash Posts: 28	I have no personal philosophy... I have given my life and my thought over to Jesus Christ the Lord. peace, Marco

Mar 15, 2004, 03:11 pm	#70 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (marco_funk,) I have no personal philosophy... I have given my life and my thought over to Jesus Christ the Lord. peace, Marco<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Okay, so nobody's biting on this one... I get the joke. Ha ha ha. "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Mar 20, 2004, 12:03 am	#71 (permalink) (top)
lostkiwi Molten Ash Posts: 60	Well, if anyone was paying attention they'd know that I am an Objectivist and an Athiest by now. I prefer to take the world as it is, and not try and force it into some man made fantisy. If anyone is curious about Ayn Rands works I highly suggest Atlas Shrugged (though if the first 200 pages don't depress the hell out of you, you might be lost forever) and The Fountainhead.

Mar 20, 2004, 10:50 am	#72 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	I have read and enjoyed both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, I also practice a certain amount of Objectivism. But, as an Engineering major, I do not believe in absolutes. IMO: You must maintain them in logical structures in order for those structures to function, but you also must keep in mind that absolutes are a construction of humanity and therefore subject to a certain amount of drift. Logical Fallicies Link