Human Beings Manufactured for Sale

[pikatore]

Quote by: 4naturalfamily Adoption is a form of slavery. Would people really refuse to take an orphan child in if they were not given the means (via a fradulenty altered birth certificate) to deny the person they "get" any knowledge about their true relatives? If so, then they are NOT "loving" people and have no "right" to get a human being to use.

I would say that since all newborn children have the same needs, it is not cruel to adopt a child.

And by the way, if pedophiles or mentally ill people wanted a baby so bad to adopt one, they can just make thier own. Its more fun that way anyway.

[4naturalfamily]

all newborn children have the same needs

I agree with that. Hospitals today try to keep moms and their babies together to prevent the harm that comes from separating them. No other caregiver -- not even the baby's father -- can take the place of his/her mother. Other caregivers can change diapers -- but they do not have the natural family bond.

My adoptee friends missed the natural bond and natural connections of true family so much they searched for years to find relatives. The moms and dads of course had been advised by adoption businesses that a baby "won't know the difference" -- well the baby can't protect himself/herself, but that doesn't mean it's OK to "kill off" the real family in order to get a baby.

[4naturalfamily]

If a child can be moved from an uncaring situation to a caring one, isn't that a positive situation?

People who try to get babies are looking for a baby that has no health problems, a baby that was well cared for in the womb, has intelligent "genes" and so on. They take children from families, mothers and fathers whp love themm and want to care for them. Or they lure people into "donating" their future children for a price. They are NOT honestly concerned about making things better for any child. If they were they would look into how a human being is affected over the course of their lifetime, when they are separated from family and given to strangers.

[4naturalfamily]

Here are a few interesting quotes and things:

Many people may not know that in adoption, loss is experienced by the natural parents, the adopters and by the adoptee. In an address for Catholic Charities USA's 1996 National Maternity and Adoption Conference in San Antonio, Texas, Catholic Priest and adoptee Rev. Thomas F. Brosnan discussed these losses and stated: "In my biased opinion the greatest Loss is suffered by the adopted person."

According to statistics compiled on the National Adoption Information Clearinghouse website, most of the mothers whose children are adopted-out "… come from intact families…which have not experienced teenage pregnancies by other family members." (Stolley, 1993)

In her paper "Adoption and Loss: The Hidden Grief" available on line, social worker Evelyn Burns Robinson compares adoption grief to Kenneth Doka's concept of disenfranchised grief which occurs when a loss is not recognized or socially supported: "Doka says that people who have experienced any type of loss often feel anger, guilt, sadness, depression, hopelessness and numbness and that in cases of disenfranchised grief, these feelings can persist for a very long time… mourners whose grief is disenfranchised are by virtue of this cut off from social supports and so have few opportunities to express and resolve their grief and the result can be that they feel alienated from their community."

Robinson states: "Mothers who have lost children through adoption … tend, in the main, to report that their sadness and anger have increased with time."

[Jack]

They take children from families, mothers and fathers whp love themm and want to care for them. Or they lure people into "donating" their future children for a price.

Is there any evidence of this occurring on a large scale? I could concede an occasional occurrence, but by and large I can't see this happening with any regularity.

[4naturalfamily]

Pregnant women get lured into "considering adoption" before their babies are born...then after they are born the adoption businesses insist that the mother has already "chosen" adoption even though she has signed nothing. They will stand over her and tell her she will be disappointing the infertile people (who made a down payment) if she doesn't let them have her closest relative to use for adoption. Pitting moms -- who have not yet recovered from childbirth -- against "professional" negotiators is not really a fair "contest". It's not surprising that some moms do give up hope and surrender. And if the mom does make it out of the hospital with her family intact, the prospective adoptive people are usually furious.

Most dads just give up hope anymore of even trying to keep their children, if the mother has surrendered parental rights. The media will jump all over the father who wants to take responsibility for his own child and call him derrogatory names like "birth" and "biological" (giving the impression he is not his son or daughter's father and parent). At the same time, the media -- and even the courts -- refer to people who have not yet adopted and are unable to reproduce as "parents" and "families" -- which they are not.

The adoption businesses now have federally funded "Infant Adoption Awareness Training" to try to help the adoption agencies get more babies for customers to buy.

There is even federally funded "Embryo Adoption Awareness Training". So Americans tax dollars now go toward trying to convince people to hand over their frozen offspring, who are less than 100 cells. Does embryo adoption "save" anybody? The businesses make extra embryos on purpose because they know they can make money off them. If "multiples" are expected, then they abort the "spares". So overall (if you are opposed to destroying frozen human embros for ethical reasons) you should know that it will destroy more embryos with embryo adoption being legal than if it were illegal.

[Jack]

Pregnant women get lured...Most dads just give up hope...

You still haven't substantiated these stories. Are there sources for them or are you simply providing hypothetical situations?

then they abort the "spares"

An embryo that has not been implanted cannot be aborted. Emotionally charged terminology does not advance your position.

[Clarence]

this is going to be an issue. Watch what Oprah and Brangelina will do if allowed. I also agree with Ish so. I guess it depends on the circumstance. As long as children aren't being 'made available'. It's happening somewhere, I'll bet.

[So what]

You don't have a clue what you're talking about as far as ART goes. And I don't have the time to edcucate you.

I suspect that you're an adoptee that feels he/she didn't go to a family that lives up to the fantasy bio mom could' ve given you. I also suspect that she couldn't have given you what you have now. OR you're someone who placed a child and now regrets that decision. If I'm wrong..where DID you get your views? You have a personal experience. Share it.

BTW..I wasn't looking for a 'perfect baby' but he's perfect to me. He was bron a congenital amputee- he is missing his right arm..I carried him and gave birth to him and he couldn't have been born to people who could love him anymore than we do.

Genetics aren't that big a deal , this thread alone shows me there are people who'd help us all by getting out of the gene pool.

[Athena]

Quote by: 4naturalfamily It'll be an interesting experiment to see whether he is "grateful" all his life for having been sold and cut off from all his related family. Personally, I think such "experimentation" with human beings is demented.

And I think you need to be more considerate of those you are sharing your thoughts with, on this very sensitive subject of who is family.

All of life is an experiment. Just because someone is related to us naturally by genes, that doesn't assure a good relationship. There are human beings who become parents, who should never raise a child. I think it is helpful for children to know their parents regardless of what kind of person the parent is, however, this doesn't mean all children should live their parents. And there are adoptive parents who are wonderful and the best possible thing that can happen to a child.

In some countries the mother's brother holds the position of the father. In some African tribes, the first child is given to the village and everyone helps raise the child. This bonds the child with everyone in the tribe as fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers. We can organize ourselves in different ways. And it is important for the child to have a family like others, because we have an instinctive need to be "normal" and "accepted".

Today, the technological family can be any combination of people we want it to be, and I am not sure this is so good? I think it has made us careless in separating children from their families. Careless in marriage and divorce.

I think this thread calls for personal exposure. I grew up not knowing my father, and my mothers next husband was not a good father person. Before this marriage I longed to have a father like the other children. When it was obvious he was not a good father person, I longed to know my own father. I am very glad I do know my father, although he is far from the father I always wanted. Although I see faults in my real father, it is kind of nice knowing these faults come in the genes. I feel like I know myself better, knowing my father.

[Clarence]

Quote by: So what My son is welcome to know his genetics.I will help him learn about his genetic contributors. We intend to tell him the story of his conception. He will know how wanted he was, what lengths we went to, how precious he is to us and the story is one of love and triumph over all odds.

beautiful. tell him that.

It won't be a story of " hey I had one too many glasses of wine one night and..." Will he be grateful?? I know tennagers that were concieved the old fashioned way that "wish I were never born!". But the other options for my son were bleak.

you'll still need a better explanation for him someday. but there isn't one.

I know one thing..I'm grateful.

that helps

Genetics aren't that big a deal , this thread alone shows me there are people who'd help us all by getting out of the gene pool.

ugly

[zolo]

There were three options for him: 1. to be destroyed 2. to be used in research 3. to be given to someone who desperately wanted to love him

As an adult who was adopted at birth, I want to say that being loved is not enough. And it's not just me, this is the sentiment of thousands of other adopted people with whom I have interacted as well as those who are quoted in numerous books about the adoption experience.

While stranger embryos are not considered literally "adopted" children, the repercussions of genetic bewilderment remain a reality. All human beings have an innate need to experience genetic mirroring in order to feel they are an integral part of their family and to feel they are a part of Humanity (why else does Archeology exist? - don't we ALL cry, "who AM I" and "where did I come from"?). Without this mirroring, we do not - regardless of the amount of love, things, or opportunities, showered on us.

We grow up "as if" in our adoptive (or manufactured) family, in the shadow of the never-born natural child. We grow up as human band-aids for our adoptive parents' infertility, most often failing to accomplish this.

I was a joy to my adoptive parents until my natural characteristics & traits made me a real person - a person who did not fit their imagined potential child. From then on, I was a disappointment - not because of the bright, creatively talented, humor-loving person I was, but because I did not fit into the imaginary mold - that ephemeral idea of the child they originally wanted.

Natural Family Preservation = Preservation of Humanity, and that which makes Humanity unique.

[zolo]

Quote:
Genetics aren't that big a deal , this thread alone shows me there are people who'd help us all by getting out of the gene pool.

ugly

Yes. Ugly indeed. I smell Eugenics.