Does ISLAM Make Saudia Arabia a Bad Country to Live In?

[namguy69]

Quote by: StrongHeartsWin My position in the debate is yes. I posit that certain rights should not stop at borders and that those rights must be equal amongst those within the border of any country. I suggest that Islamic law, which springs from Islam and the Koran, adopted by the Saudi government, is what mostly influences the violation these fundemental rights and makes Saudi Arabia a place where the ability to attain happiness is not equally available to all within its borders. I identify these rights which helps one to attain happiness as: Equality among sexes Right to freedom of speech and expression Right to freedom of movement Right to freedom of choice in Beliefs Right to representation in government Right to petition government for change Right to participate in government Right to non discrimination based on ethnic and national origins Right to non discrimination based on religious or sexual orientaton Right to participate equally in economic dealings Right to jury amongst peers in criminal proceedings Right to not be the target of inhumane treatment in the form of punishment I have chosen Saudi Arabia because it is the center of the Muslim World. Approx 1.5 billion people turn to Mecca, located in Saudi Arabia, every day to pray. In addition millions pilgrimage to it every year. The creation of this debate thread has been inspired by the comments of The_Genius at the end of this POST of his (where he extolls the virtues of Saudi Arabia) in the thread Islam: Schizophrenia and Deception. It was a clear break in the thread topic so I thought it deserved its own. I will address his points from there here since they address and illustrate quite well my position on some of the points above as it concerns the quality of life issues in Saudi Arabia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not sure if this should go in the Politics or Religion category. I am placing it in the latter and if admin feels it is ill placed, they can move it at their discretion.

Well, I can't speak for other nations but I will say the USA, by in large because of Bush and his cronies, it certainly is no longer the world power it was, and hasn't been in a number of years, since the Reagan administration the way I see it. I strongly believe he laid the ground work for the problens we face today, no one will ever convience me other wise.
I'm second generation Italian, I remember my grandfather telling me that this country is about money, it streets were only paved with gold for those who had the gold.

[Gods_Mercenary]

How do you figure we were more powerful before Reagan than we are now? The Soviet Union was at least our military match before then. I will say that the aura of the U.S. military has been to a large extent lost because of Bush and others.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary How do you figure we were more powerful before Reagan than we are now? The Soviet Union was at least our military match before then. I will say that the aura of the U.S. military has been to a large extent lost because of Bush and others.

It certainly has. I believe our "aura" of military superiority was a good deterrent that kept us from actually USING it in the manner we are now. I have no doubt the world pretty much knew we could easily handle a country like Iraq.
Now they know otherwise and I have a feeling some people out there will be more willing to test us than they would have.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Exactly, while our military is far superior, our aura such as that developed in the first gulf war was our greatest weapon, now people will just realize that if they force us to occupy unfriendly territory we cannot handle it. I would never engage our conventional units except under the utmost neccesity, and even then, I would pick battles we can crush someone in and be free from the responsibilities of occupier, to enhance the "aura"

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Exactly, while our military is far superior, our aura such as that developed in the first gulf war was our greatest weapon, now people will just realize that if they force us to occupy unfriendly territory we cannot handle it.

That's why we need a president with enough brains to keep us out of a lose/lose situation.
We COULD handle it and wipe out these insurgents in a relatively short time. However, it would be at the cost of about half the civilian population of Iraq.
The only other option, short of not invading Iraq in the first place, is to do what we have been doing, hence the lose/lose.

I would never engage our conventional units except under the utmost neccesity, and even then, I would pick battles we can crush someone in and be free from the responsibilities of occupier, to enhance the "aura"

As more people realize non-uniformed combatants are the best way to oppose our military, those options are few and far between and will become scarcer as time goes on.

[The_Genius]

Hmmm...

[ByaKya]

The US and Israel are learning the hard way the limits of military superiority. 60 years was a good run for israel. and 200 + for the US is record breaking = )

[The_Genius]

Quote by: ByaKya The US and Israel are learning the hard way the limits of military superiority. 60 years was a good run for israel. and 200 + for the US is record breaking = )

True...

History tells us that oppressors don't last...

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: The_Genius True... History tells us that oppressors don't last...

Unless the oppressors are the baddest guys on the block, which is what the world thought WE were until Bush the Lesser showed the world how we can be stymied by a bunch of insurgents.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: The_Genius True... History tells us that oppressors don't last...

Well, depends upon what you mean by last, Rome happily oppressed people for around 400 years, I call that lasting

[Devout_Muslim]

However, it would be at the cost of about half the civilian population of Iraq.

Since when did the American Government care about civilians? Oh wait, they don't.

Rome happily oppressed people for around 400 years, I call that lasting

Look's like Bush is following suit.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Well, depends upon what you mean by last, Rome happily oppressed people for around 400 years, I call that lasting

Time flies dude....