A Challenge

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 That must be code for (I lack a suitable base of knowledge to defend my argument and am therefore reluctant to answer any of your questions, please google it)

No, it's code for..

"Here's why I think you're wrong.. you can find information on it if you do a search."

In a debate, we aren't responsible for educating you in fallacies.

Now, instead of whining that someone called you out on a fallacy.. what you SHOULD do is look it up.. understand the fallacy.. then explain to us why you disagree with his accusation or why you disagree with the validity of the fallacy.

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Wait one second. You first tell me we can never figure everything out. But you also say God is the answer to everything? This is incredibly suspicious. It makes me think you've given up and resorted to man-made "God did it" solutions to questions that you should find romantically intriguingly and endlessly promising like every other reasonable rational scientist has. "God did it" can be used to wrongly answer any question. Which is very depressing to society of capable minds. Hell, why not "The flying spaghetti monster did it"? That wrongly answers your questions just as well as your god can. Being too stupid to understand our world is no excuse to come up with an equally stupid explanation that covers up its own huge gaps. I find it humorous you attribute all of these questions to your god.. when there are a million questions that can be asked when you place a trimax god into the picture. Though, like I said, your godly divine explanation is capable of covering up even its own flaws with "oh.. God is just to complicated for us to understand." WOAH.. and do you think maybe the universe could be too complicated for us to understand?

There will always be a question...always.
How could you possibly understand something you do not believe in? Something is obviously wrong here because you have resulted to throwing insults.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 There will always be a question...always. How could you possibly understand something you do not believe in? Something is obviously wrong here because you have resulted to throwing insults.

I see no insults. Note: being stupid refers to everyone.. and it's true. Note: I DO find it humorous.

Are you not capable of addressing my arguments? You've been so vague with "questions always." What are you referring to? What of my other arguments?

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer No, it's code for.. "Here's why I think you're wrong.. you can find information on it if you do a search." In a debate, we aren't responsible for educating you in fallacies. Now, instead of whining that someone called you out on a fallacy.. what you SHOULD do is look it up.. understand the fallacy.. then explain to us why you disagree with his accusation or why you disagree with the validity of the fallacy.

I am well aware of what (god of gaps) is and it is just as much a crutch for science as god is for religion. Anytime you use science against itself it cries god of gaps. You either believe in Newton's law or you don't. If you do you have to ask yourself "what started it. I believe in god so for me, the answer is simple.

[Gods_Mercenary]

O.K., but you still hven't proven God exists.

[Paleface2500]

You guys and gals can beat me to a pulp and gang up on me all you want, but it changes nothing.

I gave you 3 simple laws and asked you to formulate an opinion on how they relate to God and the big bang. All you can say is fallacy? God of Gaps?

[Jack]

It just saddens me that the more intellegent people get, the less they believe.

There are studies that have shown as intelligence rises, faith decreases. I find this consistent with what I've found throughout my life. It encourages me, doesn't sadden me in the least. I'm encouraged by the implication.

People tell me they won't believe because we lack proof that he exist. I say "believe because you lack proof that he does not exist".

Do you remain consistent and believe in everything for which there is no proof? Do you believe in ghosts, fairies, leprechauns? At some point accepting everything becomes foolishness. How would you suggest we go about proving something doesn't exist? We can only attempt to disprove that for which proof has been offered. The theists offer no proof. Therefore your belief is subjective and personal. It does not qualify as a hypothesis that can be proven or disproved. That's why science doesn't include god in its consideration of creation or evolution.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 You guys and gals can beat me to a pulp and gang up on me all you want, but it changes nothing. I gave you 3 simple laws and asked you to formulate an opinion on how they relate to God and the big bang. All you can say is fallacy? God of Gaps?

Post #12.

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer No, it could logically be that the universe is simply expanding. Increasing in size. Why do you conclude the universe has no parameters simply because it is expanding? Is it not logical to conclude that IF the universe is finite.. the parameters are simply growing? OR the parameters are very large and there is much room for the cosmos to expand? Also, many many philosophers believe that the universe extends into itself with the help of other dimensions. The best way I can explain this is an ant on a piece of paper. Imagine the ant and the piece of paper is two dimensional. That shouldn't be hard to imagine since it's relatively flat. The ant could obviously reach one end of the piece of paper and be forced to stop. The piece of paper is now finite. Now imagine the 3rd dimension. The 3rd dimension wraps the 2nd dimension through 3rd dimension space and twist the piece of paper to meet one end to another - COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to the 2nd-dimension-ant. The ant can now walk and walk from one point all the way around the entire length of the paper (front and back (the paper is twisted as well as bent)) and reach the same point it started at. Many philosophers believe this is true for the universe. Please watch this flash animation to better understand multiple dimensions. Imagining the Tenth Dimension - A Book by Rob Bryanton Move your mouse over Navigation and click "Imagining the tenth dimension." Why a god? Why your god? Why a man-made god? Why not nature? There are plenty of philosophical explanations, mind you, that soundly explain this without the need for gods. Such as a universe that expands and implodes due to gravity. Perhaps the universe is on a cycle of expansion and implosion that has lasted for an eternity. Such as a super string theory that claims that our universe was created by a collision of other-dimension fibers. These fibers could also be infinite.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Paleface2500 You guys and gals can beat me to a pulp and gang up on me all you want, but it changes nothing. I gave you 3 simple laws and asked you to formulate an opinion on how they relate to God and the big bang. All you can say is fallacy? God of Gaps?

Hey, the Mercenary extended a nice welcome to you and you blew me off (granted, I was helping drop a deuce on your thred at the time.)

And yes, I may start refering to myself in the third person, you're lucky i'm not using the royal We

[Paleface2500]

Ok here are more.

The bible says the earth will be destroyed by fire. Science also claims that the sun, before it dies will grow, effectively destroying the earth by fire.

The bible tells us there was a great flood. Ironically there is not one ancient civilization that does not speak of a great flood.

I find it ironic that sciences theories of evolution are uncannily similar to the bibles account in genesis.

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Hey, the Mercenary extended a nice welcome to you and you blew me off (granted, I was helping drop a deuce on your thred at the time.) And yes, I may start refering to myself in the third person, you're lucky i'm not using the royal We

I got that and i appreciate it. I was tied up defending myself.

[Jack]

I find it ironic that sciences theories of evolution are uncannily similar to the bibles account in genesis.

Then you'll need to provide a passage that addresses differentiation of species, as evolution doesn't address floods and the sun's death.
I know what you're trying to say, but I doubt you want to base your faith on what would be coincidences at best.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 Ok here are more. The bible says the earth will be destroyed by fire. Science also claims that the sun, before it dies will grow, effectively destroying the earth by fire.

You believe these things are the same?

Quote by: Paleface2500 The bible tells us there was a great flood. Ironically there is not one ancient civilization that does not speak of a great flood.

I'm sorry, I just don't find ancient civilizations credible. :) They've been worshiping the sun and telling myths since they started.

Science, on the other hand, shows NO evidence of a great flood. There would be geographic evidence of such.. and there is not.

Quote by: Paleface2500 I find it ironic that sciences theories of evolution are uncannily similar to the bibles account in genesis.

O.o Really? How is that?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Paleface2500 I got that and i appreciate it. I was tied up defending myself.

the smiley face means it was said with more than a little sarcasm, just so you don't think i'm actually angry.

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Isherwood Then you'll need to provide a passage that addresses differentiation of species, as evolution doesn't address floods and the sun's death. I know what you're trying to say, but I doubt you want to base your faith on what would be coincidences at best.

No you are right it doesn’t in Genesis. We know that all life on our planet evolved out of water then onto land, air and finally man. This is essentially the same order as in the bible and I find it extremely encouraging.

We know our sun is young and before it dies it will grow. It will eventually engulf Mercury, Venus, Earth and they speculate it will stop before Mars. Again, I find this ironic and encouraging because this is how God says he will destroy the earth.

How can A book written so long ago be that accurate coincidences? Hardly.

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary the smiley face means it was said with more than a little sarcasm, just so you don't think i'm actually angry.

No and i hope nobody here is actually angry.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Nah, none of us get angry, well, I shouldn't say that, but none of us who've replied to this thread normally get angry.

[Paleface2500]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer You believe these things are the same? I'm sorry, I just don't find ancient civilizations credible. :) They've been worshiping the sun and telling myths since they started. Science, on the other hand, shows NO evidence of a great flood. There would be geographic evidence of such.. and there is not. O.o Really? How is that?

Do you know this or are you just speculating that there is no evidence?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 No you are right it doesn’t in Genesis. We know that all life on our planet evolved out of water then onto land, air and finally man. This is essentially the same order as in the bible and I find it extremely encouraging. We know our sun is young and before it dies it will grow. It will eventually engulf Mercury, Venus, Earth and they speculate it will stop before Mars. Again, I find this ironic and encouraging because this is how God says he will destroy the earth. How can A book written so long ago be that accurate coincidences? Hardly.

They aren't even a little bit stupendous.

The Bible isn't even close to describing evolution. If it were even hinting evolution you'd think it'd get the basic premise right.

The destruction of the earth is common to tons of religions. Are they too amazing to be coincidence too?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Paleface2500 Do you know this or are you just speculating that there is no evidence?

I know this. Would you like me to dig up the evidence?