The Quran Vs The Bible......

[Cadre]

Truesay.

GM & Cadre, destroyer of already de-railed threads.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: The_Genius Which one is the true Word of God?

Niether one. If we knew the true word of God, then we'd all be gods.

[The_Genius]

So no one up for a debate?

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Cadre Uhm, Okay. You used something called interchangeable logic, meaning that I can reverse your argument by simply using interchanging opposing terminology. It's actually quite a 'mature' form of argument, and quite effectively illustrates a fallacious or contradictory concept/theory. If you want to get upset with me thats fine, but at least do it under the appropriate circumstances. It just seems that everytime I put forth a reasonable and logical argument, you attempt to degrade it by insult. And only due to the mere fact that it is an opposing view point which either you can't refute, or don't bother too (perhaps due to conceit, or shock that someone could disagree with you and make perfect sense). I think you need to be more open-minded.

If you are truly capable of forming a solid and logical argument like you claim, then I do not see the purpose behind quoting what I wrote and distorting it with your own words. Its not that I am upset but I think you should try to be more creative other than being obsessed with refuting me. No need to make it personal...

As far as your logic is concerned, I will refute it now. Let me read it first....

[Gods_Mercenary]

I'm not really sure what we're supposed to be debating, I'm not sure any of us thinks that one's better than the other.

[Athena]

Quote by: The_Genius You are very wrong there. I do not have much of an understanding of the Bible and therefore, I can not comment. However, I am yet to see a single statement from the Quran that contradicts modern science. If you want, I can quote and give you examples. By the way, who said Science is purely objective and non-political? Some theoretical speculations formed by desperate atheist scientists really make me laugh at times. Although, blind faith should not be encouraged. Whichever faith group you belong to, you should always be able to justify the reason for your belief with logic and reason. For me, science is a tool that we can use to prove the religious truths that have been revealed to mankind.

I did favor Islam over Christianity because it is more scientific, but then I learned it also includes demons. That means superstition, not science.

Islam shares the same early prophets as the God of Abraham religions. I don't know the Quran that well, but the Christian bible begins with translated Sumerian stories. With a God who makes Adam and Eve from mud. That is not very scientific. Claiming we have sin because this couple ate a forbidden fruit is not scientific. I don't know the Islamic explanation of sin, but I think our understanding of sin is vitally important. What does it mean to be born in sin and how does it happen? Hopefully, Islam has a better explanation.

Now as Christians believe, we needed Jesus to save us from our sin, and only through him does anyone get to heaven. Jesus is the bread and wine, following Isis the bread and water. In Eqyptian theology, Isis weighed our hearts to determine if we pass into the good after life or not. I don't think many would agree getting to heaven depends on Isis, and I don't know why we should believe, Jesus, is our way to heaven, and I don't know the Islamic explanation on how we are judged, and what determines where our souls go.
However, I heard something about dead Muslim martyrs getting virgins, and that is sexist and not very scientific.

[Athena]

Quote by: another day It's not about contradicting modern science. It's about the fact that there is no reason to believe that the FOLKLORE is true. There is no evidence of divine origin. Its just well written theological myth. In other words your a theist who would like to abuse the process of science to back already drawn conclusions (ie: pseudo science) The idea of a supreme god being is an unnecessary assumption that stems from our position as earthly, social organisms with thinking minds. The universe does not need a personality, mind, and ego behind it, its power is derived from its system-like intelligence. More an internal force like the wind and fire, laws that govern all existance. There is no need to bring a mind like ours into play. Ours is only one form of intelligence, which is linear. The intelligence of the universe is all encompassing and does not require a consciousness with thoughts and feelings like our own. Those are simply things to aid in the survival and life of a realm-dwelling creature.

Only western logic is linear. Eastern logic is wholistic. It was the Greeks who began the linear, cause and effect, logic.

We are excessively materialistic, meaning our concept of reality is focused on matter, and this is not a perfect way to understand reality. The Mayan were not materialistic but understand reality as a matter of forces, and I am not that isn't a superior way to understand reality.

Then there is also abstrast and concrete thinking. I really wish everyone had a better understanding of thinking before engaging in religious debates, but I will stop at pointing, the way you think is, dependent on your culture, and not all cultures are linear and materialistic.

I prefer Kuldeep's inderstanding of God consciousness and wish that would not repeatedly be ignored when speaking of God, as though the only understanding of God is, the understanding of the God of Abraham, who is as humanized as the tribal of the gods of his time.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Athena Islam shares the same early prophets as the God of Abraham religions. I don't know the Quran that well, but the Christian bible begins with translated Sumerian stories. With a God who makes Adam and Eve from mud. That is not very scientific. Claiming we have sin because this couple ate a forbidden fruit is not scientific. I don't know the Islamic explanation of sin, but I think our understanding of sin is vitally important. What does it mean to be born in sin and how does it happen? Hopefully, Islam has a better explanation.

In Islam, humans are not born with sins. There is no such term as "initial sin" and no one will be sacrificed for others' sins. Each individual must pay for his/her own sins. Unlike the Old Testament, in the Quran BOTH Adam and Eve is equally blamed. There is no such thing as "Eve being the temptress" or receiving 'pain of childbirth' as "punishment."

However, I heard something about dead Muslim martyrs getting virgins, and that is sexist and not very scientific.

I do not know about it but if you give me links or anything, I can look it up and get back to you.

[Gods_Mercenary]

So what if it's sexist, just call me Muhammad!

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary So what if it's sexist, just call me Muhammad!

and what do you mean by that?

[Gods_Mercenary]

I was making a poor attempt at a joke. Should've put a smiley.

[The_Genius]

Okay...

[Athena]

Quote by: The_Genius In Islam, humans are not born with sins. There is no such term as "initial sin" and no one will be sacrificed for others' sins. Each individual must pay for his/her own sins. Unlike the Old Testament, in the Quran BOTH Adam and Eve is equally blamed. There is no such thing as "Eve being the temptress" or receiving 'pain of childbirth' as "punishment." I do not know about it but if you give me links or anything, I can look it up and get back to you.

I wish more people's were taking this thread more seriously. Our understanding of sin and being saved is perhaps our most important understanding of reality! It has everything to do with our systems of justice and even international relationships with countries that have different dominating relationships. Come on folks, if you want peace of to justify war, this is an important subject.

It seems to me the Muslim telling of Adam and Eve is the better one. If we are going to deal reasonably with reality, we must have a good understanding of reality. It is completely unscientific to belief humans were created as perfect beings, and do wrong things, because of what the first female ate. Clearing that away, how do the Muslims explain our imperfection and why we don't always make good choices? Please, do give me good reasoning. Good reasoning is good for our sanity!

And how differently we will understand the Christian world and Muslim world conflict, with this understanding of different beliefs and effort to know truth.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Athena how do the Muslims explain our imperfection and why we don't always make good choices?

In Islam, Allah (God) gave everyone freedom to do whatever he/she wants to do. Allah explicitly mentions in the Quran that if one wants to live a pious life, Allah will assist him to do that.... If one wants to go in the wrong path, Allah will lead him astray as well... of course, you should know which deeds will benefit you on the Day of Judgement.

So basically, everyone has been given a free will... At the end of the day, you have been given a brain, will power and intelligence... you make your own choices.....

[Gods_Mercenary]

Free will's big in Christianity too.

[LittleBoyBlue]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I was making a poor attempt at a joke. Should've put a smiley.

haha pullin a john kerry?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Well, no John Kerry's was unintentionally offensive, mine was offensive if you didn't realize I was being sarcastic.

[Athena]

Quote by: The_Genius In Islam, Allah (God) gave everyone freedom to do whatever he/she wants to do. Allah explicitly mentions in the Quran that if one wants to live a pious life, Allah will assist him to do that.... If one wants to go in the wrong path, Allah will lead him astray as well... of course, you should know which deeds will benefit you on the Day of Judgement. So basically, everyone has been given a free will... At the end of the day, you have been given a brain, will power and intelligence... you make your own choices.....

Okay, so everyone has free will. How does this explain why they ever do anything wrong? Can a monkey do wrong? Why? Is there a difference between monkey decisions and human decisions? What?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Monkeys are governed by their instincts and emotions, they do not have a consience in the human sense, so they cannot do wrong.

[The_Genius]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Monkeys are governed by their instincts and emotions, they do not have a consience in the human sense, so they cannot do wrong.

I agree.