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| | #21 (permalink) (top) | ||
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Quote:
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I would suggest that your condition is a rare one. In the future perhaps gene therapy will be able to remedy that. What I really like about your answer, which I underlined, is your acceptance of the rationale. Therefore, you do have a responsibility to hold vegetarianism out as the choice we should choose if possible -- despite risking being called a hypocrite. You would have to be strong enough to say that the hypocracy of a person putting forth an idea or solution is irrelevant to the message`s rightfullness or wrongfullness. The message stands on its own, seperate from the messenger. Since you said you would become a vegetarian in a heartbeat if you could, accepting it would aid in achieving peace, you are under obligation to put that forth as one of your beliefs in remedying the situation in your OP -- without worry of having to explain your personal actions on the matter. Though, I do understand that could lead one with an uncomfortable feeling of inner contradiction. "FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | ||
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| | #22 (permalink) (top) |
| Absolutely Superb Posts: 774 | Well, as much as vegetarianism is an aspect of this debate, I feel it is not the central issue as much as the source of the need to even bring up vegetarianism is. Plus, I think letting your posts in this thread speak for themselves would serve better for your cause then me inserting a memetic "I agree" statement in the OP. Lastly, it would definately make me feel uncomfortable to do such a thing(I really would feel like a hypocrit). What I want to discuss now, since we got past the sketchier parts of my questions, is the action-based aspect of it. Let's see if we can motivate ourselves to spread a message of peace in the best way possible, while ameliorating the harm of domineering attitudes and the apathy that allows them! One thing I saw brought up a great deal of religion, and yet religion is not an issue of just human ego, but philosphical conceptualization and the desire for realised truth. How can one deal with such a thing based on actions when it is purely ideological? To quote V for Vendetta: "You can't attack an idea", much less be personal/have a one-to-one talk with it. Considering this, the change would have to be gradual on my part- so, I see two paths here: 1.) Try to move the cultural focus of the religions themselves towards peace, using thier own tenets and reasoning to convince them. 2.) Promote atheism, or at least the reasonable lack of belief in God. I"m not sure I can do this comfortably, for some reason. Next, we have the desire for power. How do you change the materialistic madmen of America for the better? Can they be changed? How about people like my parents, who view thier material possession as the culmination of thier life and something they earned, and therefore, something they feel a need to focus on at the expense of altruistic actions on thier part? I see multiple paths for this as well: 1.) Ignore it, and work on my current generation, as well as the next one(have children and raise them for the better?) 2.)Actually change my parent's minds, but that's a laughably impossible goal for me and my lack of slick reasoning and one-liners that seem to appeal to thier type. 3.)Give double to charities to make up for my parent's lack of giving 4.) Pawn off my people like my parent's useless junk and glass vases while they're away or by stealing, and use the resulting money for charity(KIDDING!) Next, we have the politicians and the warmongerers, what about them? How do we motivate the American people to change the system to prevent imperialistic tendencies? How does one become active in political change in the first place? I cannot tihnk of any paths to take on this, because I have little expeirence with politics- I could definately use some advice here! I've been studying anthropology, linguistics, and psychiatry all my life(although I'm just beginning studies on the college level), but I never realised until now the potential I'm ignoring by just going academic with the job I'll get with my degree. Perhaps I can do something with that as well, so any advice as to what a multilingual(Japanese, Chinese, Protoiroquian) anthropologist such as myself can do is appreciated as well! |
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| | #23 (permalink) (top) | |
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Why do you think that is a non-sequiter when throughout history we have viewed and degraded other people as non-humans in our treatment of them, often calling them animals, denying them the status of humans, or having what our religions bestow upon us (i.e. a soul), and not to mention turn the implements of animal exploitation onto humans to subjigate them? There is a definite connection linking all of those together. Quote:
"FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | |
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| | #24 (permalink) (top) | |||||||
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Another great and well thought out post by Z! Quote:
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I think usually the agent that kills apathy is accidental -- like Rosa Parks refusing on a specific day to give up her seat just because she happened to be very tired on that day, or that men of strong moral character happen to exist at a particular time in history -- such as Ghandi. IN the case of Ghandi or MLK, charisma and a combination of humility with strenght of convictions may be needed in the right mix -- and again at the right time. Is that something that can be cultured and refined and promoted. I would hopoe so, or to say "no" -- that in itself would be pessimistic thought -- the twin of apathy or contentment with the status quo. Quote:
I would suggest rather than using their own tenets to move them towards a peaceful view or concept of their religion (which cannot be done because of the contradictions that would arise) and leave the religion still standing on a Neo footing of some kind, it would be best to use their own scriptures in reasoned arguments against it to widdle away at the numbers of adherants to it. I think the bases or kernel of this could be started with formal reasoning classes at a very early age -- like in kindergarten or first grade, which would undermine the gobbly-gook they get from already lost causes such as indoctrinated parents. Plant that at an early age, then in their teen years their rebellion against parantel views will be even more shored up so as to break the chain. Quote:
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"FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | |||||||
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| | #25 (permalink) (top) | ||||||
| Absolutely Superb Posts: 774 | Quote:
Which is part of my opinion. Out of all the higher-level college students I have had lengthened discussions with, motivating them to even discuss putting thier ideas to action beyond the conceptual stage is near impossible for me. I believe that if academia even further encouraged activity then it does now we'd have even more ideas, and applications thereof in the works. Sometimes, when one looks back in history they can imagine how many ideas were lost because people did not apply themselves, or lacked confidence. It's about time ideological progressives gained confidence, which brings me to my next goal I want to work towards: motivation. How does one draw the ideas out of the intellectual realm and make it reality? The simple fact of the matter is that ideas are most fully realised by the person who learned it from thier own synthesization of knowledge and inuition, rather than form a textbook or from a mentor or teacher(unless they are quite talented). Considering this, I think it would be rather rewarding to seek out those who are on the forefront of innovation, and to gather thier advice and ideas from them, or offer support. While what I am implying is a network of academics geared towards motivating each other to apply things, I think it must go much further than that. For a good example, look at the recent foundation founded by the veritable Richard Dawkins- where's the community? There needs to be more than sharing of ideology, but also a sharing of ALL of the intellects involved. Of course, I am not the sort that can do such a thing, as I am not well-educated enough at this point, but I'd like to think this idea would be applied in the future. The benefits would be enormous. Quote:
After that, cultural change/shift would no doubt occur. Whether or not its effects would be permanent, though, is questionable. Quote:
The optimal way to achieve this is require profeciency in general topics at a college level to teach even elementary school. Quote:
Movies won't work, and neither do books. It's already been tried- so what would be better is something truly momentous and iconic of both the misery of the poor as well as the potentiality of thier future when given aid. Don't ask me what it would be, though, I don't have a clue. Quote:
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That said, good to know you're proficient in Japanese. I'll be sure to PM you for random bits of advice when I get stuck ![]() Edit: Oh lord my spelling needed some fixing. | ||||||
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| | #27 (permalink) (top) | ||||||||
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Quote:
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~Margaret Mead Quote:
For example, if I want to promote vegetarianism, one of the actions I may want to do would be to set up a booth for outreach, or pay for a newspaper add and through those programs invite others to join in not only adopting that position, but also request that they help the movement by promoting it. Quote:
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The most effective way would be to have the most powerful platform available to get something across. Celebrities have a fan base. Anchormen have national audiences, Philanthropists have the power of finances. You have to decide how you are going to erect your platform rather than the process or technique of what will convince someone -- because you have control over the former and none over the latter. Quote:
"FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | ||||||||
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| | #28 (permalink) (top) |
| ~Ruthless Debater~ Location: Cape Town, South Africa. Posts: 433 | There are several problems humanity faces. Such as : poverty, wars, crimes etc. What we need is a collective effort from every single citizens of this world. and we all know.... its more than impossible. :rolleyes: |
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| | #29 (permalink) (top) | |
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Quote:
What we need is a collective effort from just enough people who have the ability to get us to the tipping point. After that, with vigilence, we can ride the mementum the rest of the way. Some will get a free ride for sure. The slackers always do. I don`t think all avenues of approach for a peaceful world has been exhausted or even found out, and Zinkovich is striving to find the missing pieces to the puzzle he or she senses hasn`t been discovered yet and put into play. I think that such idealism is what is going to bring forth new ways of problem solving and that is the optimism the world needs to address our problems -- not pessimism. "FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | |
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| | #30 (permalink) (top) | |
| Absolutely Superb Posts: 774 | Quote:
Pessimistic attitudes are not rooted in logic as they are a denial of the slim potentiality of beneficial results. Really, basing your stance on pure cynicism is not logical, so you're going to have to give me more comprehensive reasoning for the futility of my goals if you want me to consider what you're saying. Edit: Looks like Strongheart beat me to the punch. | |
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| | #31 (permalink) (top) |
![]() Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,193 | What is holding humanity back? Lack of understanding, for the most part, and a lack of respect. I'm not talking about day-to-day ignorance, or trying to be someone who harks back to the 'good old days' when it was safe for kids to play on the streets, and so forth. What I'm trying to focus on is that, at the present time, an awful lot of information is flying back & forth, and, for the most part, an average citizen (of any state) is only willing to dip into the surface. People are much too willing to take the simplest, easiest option, no matter how arrogant or ignorant it may be. Look at 'There's no such thing as a good Muslim' down in Misc. Classic example. It's different, so it can't be good, so it must be hated & feared. No attempt to understand, no attempt to respect. How to deal with it? I honestly am not sure. I've had some fairly intense face-to-face discussions with racists, skinheads, all sorts. And it takes a lot to beat down that barrier. It's something that has to be fought, though. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes. |
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| | #32 (permalink) (top) | ||
| Open the cages! Posts: 1,774 | Quote:
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I think you hit on some good themes, Matt W. "FREE ME", song video by Goldfinger "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." --Albert Einstein | ||
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| | #33 (permalink) (top) |
| Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,959 | Human nature holds us back, we are naturally greedy and violent. We are cavemen trying to play God. As individuals we can overcome these impulsions, but as a society there will always be someone who doesn't. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein |
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| | #34 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Posts: 106 | What is holding humanity back? Humans?! The world is populated with humans and those that have the appearance of humans. The problem is who's who, because they look same. The humans are humane. They have within them that spirit called love which shows concern and is kind and just. They love their neighbors as the love themselves. On the other hand the humanoid which has the appearance of a human are not humane, but have the attributes that goes along with self -centredness such as, ------" When the humans become separated from those that are only human in appearance, the new beginning will start for world peace. Paul |
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| | #35 (permalink) (top) | |
| Digital Witchcraft Posts: 3,020 | Quote:
Though, putting that into practice WOULD be next to impossible. UNLESS the right minds with enough guts get hold of ELF [extremely low frequency] technology. Look it up. Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil.. | |
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| | #36 (permalink) (top) | |
| Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873 | Quote:
(hell, we can't even record it universally true yet thanks to religions and political/social polarizations, to actually TRY to effectively learn from it.) Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready | |
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| | #38 (permalink) (top) | |
| a thinking thing Location: Ajax, ON Posts: 174 | Quote:
Either way it is intriguing and I'm gonna read up on it. Never assume that truth connotates purity or nicety. | |
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| | #39 (permalink) (top) |
| a thinking thing Location: Ajax, ON Posts: 174 | Yes, but then what's the point, because the changes are being forced. It is a wholly unnatural progression. Perhaps it's these emotions that have permitted our survival for the past few milleniums. I am a firm believer that there must always be struggle and pain in the human condition to ensure that we cherish our existence and are motivated to survive. Never assume that truth connotates purity or nicety. |
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