We are all gods.

[Kamehameha34]

Quote by: Athena Logical possibility of other diminsional reality is in String Theory and quantum physics, or Kuldeep's understanding of consciousness. It does not come in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, religions that are built on myths.

Myths can still be logically possible, unless their followers define their deity in a way that makes them logically impossible.

[Athena]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Myths can still be logically possible, unless their followers define their deity in a way that makes them logically impossible.

How does the mythology of the God of Abraham stand as logical? For example, what laws of nature can explain turning mud into flesh and bone, that supports a brain that can be self conscious? The God of Abraham is a God of whims, not a God of the laws of nature. A God of whims is also a God of chaos, because anything can happen, even when this means violating the laws of nature. Such as turning mud into flesh and bones that support a brain that can be self conscious, or willing a flood that consumes the whole earth because this God is displeased like a 3 year child throwing a tantrum, and then turning around to say this very same God so loves his children, he gives his only son to save them. This "logic" is so contradictory and so unbelievable, it is a shame to call it logic.

[Kamehameha34]

A lot of things can be logically impossible if you suddenly start to turn abstract concepts literal.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I agree, people who read all the Bible literaly make themselves easy targets for your arguments, as well as looking silly. You make your mistakes when you assume we all do that.

[Kamehameha34]

You make your mistakes when you assume we all do that.

I don't believe I have.

[Gods_Mercenary]

I didn't say you did, I meant atheists in general. Most people on this forum don't assume that because we have many reasonable theists, i'd like to think i'm one, but that's for others to judge.

[Jack]

The problem for both Christians and Muslims is that to denounce their radical brethren, they can't resort to theology. Extremists are generally literalists. They practice their faith by the book, literally.

To disown their extremist fringe, both camps have to attack their style, their fanaticism, which in turn permits the extremists to consider the less extreme of their faith cowards, not devout enough, not true believers.

It would be fascinating to watch this in-fighting if it didn't spill over into the real world and cause social discord. Reverend Phelps and the 9/11 pilots are so similar. Both give evidence of the worst of Christianity and Islam. Neither can be properly contained without impacting the rights of the less extreme. Even if our country were to outlaw Muslims and declare itself a Christian nation, our own terrorists would still be safe. They could easily destroy the very thing they claim to love all by themselves, without any help from those who honestly admit they hate us.

[Clarence]

So Kame. now that you've realized there's likely no god and you've also realized that most people can't understand why you know this, how will you proceed? Will you belittle every meek soul who has faith?

Kame, you are reciting an old argument. It is not yours. My 2cent is to warn you. You will find many people of faith who are nicer and more pure (better) than you or I. Despite thier inability to understand how illogical thier belief is, they would not seek to steal your faith, whatever it may be (yourself?).

I can picture you arguing with your parents about going to church and they just aren't getting it. You're watching the world divide itself amongst (likely) false religions. Religion is a dangerous thing to you.


added: I should've read this first Split realization



We agree on this issue. Just be careful with people's faith. You'll understand the first time you rip away the safety line (or whatever) on some hypnotized child of a born-again. You are right, just don't force it. Some of the turtles need to believe you're there. Besides, many good things are embraced if not created through religion even though no god is apperent.

[Jagged]

I believe the first post of this topic is true. Therefore, universally, this religion is twice as true. Because the religion is twice as true as it was at an earlier time, this must mean that the religion is not absolutely true. If the religion is not completely true, it is false.

Damn that was a good job of disproving that. Thats right, im a genius

Quote by: Athena How does the mythology of the God of Abraham stand as logical? For example, what laws of nature can explain turning mud into flesh and bone, that supports a brain that can be self conscious?...... This "logic" is so contradictory and so unbelievable, it is a shame to call it logic.

It can be considered logical because it all stands on the assumption that all that "stuff," or a God who can do all, is possible. You call it illogical because you believe that in order for something to be logical it must follow the rules of science, such as physics and etc. I can't tell, but either they are simply different definitions of the term "logical" or the first includes the second, if that makes sense. Doesnt really matter, i suppose.

Anyways, i really enjoyed reading this topic, although i think that the core of the entire 4 page discrepancy that finally led to flaming were just different definitions of complicated words that neither party took the time to define to each other carefully.

[Clarence]

I believe the first post of this topic is true. Therefore, universally, this religion is twice as true. Because the religion is twice as true as it was at an earlier time, this must mean that the religion is not absolutely true. If the religion is not completely true, it is false.

I think I understand? Something you just read has further solidified your faith. Kame ignores me. he should know a person can't argue with that. But you aren't here to debate your faith.

How does the mythology of the God of Abraham stand as logical? For example, what laws of nature can explain turning mud into flesh and bone It can be considered logical because it all stands on the assumption that all that "stuff," or a God who can do all, is possible.

just exchange primordial stew for mud I guess.

You call it illogical because you believe that in order for something to be logical it must follow the rules of science, such as physics and etc. I can't tell, but either they are simply different definitions of the term "logical" or the first includes the second, if that makes sense. Doesnt really matter, i suppose.

It does matter if the belief in god/gods is causing such irrational and bloody hubbub constantly. I mentioned there are good things about religion.

the notion that some omnipotent is going to fix things for us is a comforting yet dangerous idea. If Jesus was the son of God sent as proof, the effect is wearing off. But some say there won't be a next time.

So the choices might be 1) we clean our act up or 2) God destroys the savage garden and those born into it are either A)faithful or B) in hell?. I hope you know what I'm trying to say even if you don't agree.

Well, what kind of options are they considering the current state of our spherical little ant farm? The good things about religion, I can't pinpoint to any specific religion. Same with the bad things.

i think that the core of the entire 4 page discrepancy that finally led to flaming were just different definitions of complicated words that neither party took the time to define to each other carefully.

that's a debate forum, I guess. If you boil any topic down enough you can get to this point. It's fun right?

added Split realization I should've read this first. Are you Christian?

[Danzo]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Then you agree that believing in the existence of my turtle universe is just as valid as believing in your Christian god?

I like the extremely valid point you've brought forth in this thread here. Comparing a turtle universe in which you are god to Christianity is a bit silly by my standards, but the message is clear. I may as well believe that this Turtle Universe exists if I believe in the Christian god. Neither can be truly proven or proven false...

By the way, have you ever seen the movie 'What the Bleep Do We Know?'? It reminds me a bit of this.

[Kamehameha34]

By the way, have you ever seen the movie 'What the Bleep Do We Know?'? It reminds me a bit of this.

Nope.

I have..



However..




Seen Sister Act 2 </off topic>


Sorry, still have some residual Christmas season cells dying in my veins.

[Danzo]

No, you have, eh? I don't know whether to determine that as a no or a yes.

Nope, I haven't, lol. and By the looks of your Christmas cell remark, you have seen 'What the Bleep Do We Know?' I thought that was a very great movie, and kind of explains some of what I think you're saying in this thread, although I may be entirely wrong and just be uselessly blabbing on and on...

[Kamehameha34]

And on and on and on? Useless, you say? Useless blabbing on and on? On and on goes the blabbing, the useless blabbing? The useless blabbing self professed to go on and on and on and on and on and on? Blabbing uselessness continuously, on and on and on? You say?


I don't have any idea what you're talking about

[Danzo]

Hehehe, nice. What I meant was... By remarking that you still had Christmas cells, you relate to the movie since it was in some areas about cells, so I assumed you chose such words because of that reason... Perhaps not? Then this is awkward...

Anyway, I think the point you are trying to get across is visible and valid. Or do you actually own a turtle universe and would like to discuss it with us?

[Athena]

Quote by: Isherwood The problem for both Christians and Muslims is that to denounce their radical brethren, they can't resort to theology. Extremists are generally literalists. They practice their faith by the book, literally. To disown their extremist fringe, both camps have to attack their style, their fanaticism, which in turn permits the extremists to consider the less extreme of their faith cowards, not devout enough, not true believers. It would be fascinating to watch this in-fighting if it didn't spill over into the real world and cause social discord. Reverend Phelps and the 9/11 pilots are so similar. Both give evidence of the worst of Christianity and Islam. Neither can be properly contained without impacting the rights of the less extreme. Even if our country were to outlaw Muslims and declare itself a Christian nation, our own terrorists would still be safe. They could easily destroy the very thing they claim to love all by themselves, without any help from those who honestly admit they hate us.

To correct the problem of those who interpret the bible literally, we must educate people for abstract thinking. Education for technology stopped teaching for independent, abstract thinking. It replaced logic with memorization and independent thinking with "group think" and leaves the individual dependent on "authority". This is great for the rapid advancement of technology, but it rises so many social problems, our nation could fall because of it. And where muslims are the most violent terrorist, there may be a complete of education other than religious training, so the only world view possible for them is the religious one they are taught.

Unfortunately today, many Christians think all that is needed is religious training, and we are reverting back to the evils from which the US once separated itself.

[Gods_Mercenary]

That theory about education is an interesting one, I"ll look into that.