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KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 01:00 pm

Isherwood,

You win. I cannot prove that assertion. Score one for the calm rational thinker Isherwood. I like how you think.

And if people's conscience doesn't point them toward God, what is all the atheist fascination with Bible theology?

**Jack** · Dec 23, 2006, 01:21 pm

Quote:

what is all the atheist fascination with Bible theology?

Since our opinion is defined by what it doesn't accept, I think anyone who wishes to speak about atheism should educate themselves on what it is that we're being aligned in opposition to. Also, many of us are former theists, so we still have knowledge based on what we learned during that period.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 01:29 pm

Chainer,

Learn how to respond to points.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 01:43 pm

Is there a form of debate where each person says what they believe, and then the other person says, "No, I believe this." I guess that's discussion, not debate.

I am bored with logic and evidence--tell me what you believe, and why. Strict adherence to these two things is boring and often not true (which is why there is so much of sarcasm and personal attacks)--logic can go in any direction--evidence can be used to support but not prove, a lot of things. Tedious. Boring. Nonproductive.

Why not debate, discuss and learn from each other?

Lullaby Chainer · Dec 23, 2006, 01:44 pm

Quote:

Quote by: KillerArgument

Chainer,

Learn how to respond to points.

You haven't made any, dear. :] All you've done is preach.

Also, staff and members have asked you to use the quote feature. Please use it.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 01:45 pm

Isherwood,

I know that you are against God. But, personally, what are you FOR?

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 01:49 pm

Lull,

I have webtv, not sure that quote thng works with it. Sorry for the bad formatting.

Kamehameha34 · Dec 23, 2006, 01:59 pm

Quote:

Quote by: KillerArgument

Isherwood,

I know that you are against God. But, personally, what are you FOR?

No one has to, theistically, be "for" anything.

**Jack** · Dec 23, 2006, 02:04 pm

Quote:

I know that you are against God. But, personally, what are you FOR?

I'm not sure how you can parse "against" out of a failure to believe. I do not accept the reality of gods. I'm not opposed to them, I consider them fiction.

I am for a rational, realistic and natural understanding of our world and our lives. I believe that each of us perceives reality slightly differently, based on our unique life experiences. Thus, I don't accept absolute answers to life's questions. I perceive life as an adventure of discovery, a relatively short period of time in which to explore our current reality.

Along with some theists, I also support trying to get society to be more tolerant of what I call, for want of a better term, spirituality. Love, peace, charity, compassion, empathy, are all dismissed by many as weaknesses or attitudes to be exploited. That is the purpose of my ministry, as an ordained minister. Not all ministries need to be religious in nature.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 02:24 pm

Isherwood,

Not trying to be funny here, but are you in the church of atheism? An atheist minister? I don't get it.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 02:27 pm

Sorry, I am on a few boards, so don't quite know how things work here. Is this "Melted Cheese" moniker a rating of my experience?

**Jack** · Dec 23, 2006, 02:33 pm

I don't mind the confusion. It gives me a chance to explain about my position. There is no atheist church, but yes, I'm a minister who is an atheist. I have the same concern for and interest in helping others that I did when I was a youth pastor in high school. My ministry hasn't changed, just the motivation for it.

Quote:

Is this "Melted Cheese" moniker a rating of my experience?

It's the default member title based on the number of posts. You can change it in your CP (look for it in the top menu).

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 02:40 pm

Thanks, Isherwood.

At least you aren't nasty like so many debaters.

Why did you turn from Christianity?

Is there a formal name for your church?

**Jack** · Dec 23, 2006, 03:06 pm

Quote:

Is there a formal name for your church?

No church, just a ministry and a website.

Quote:

Why did you turn from Christianity?

While I admired (and still do) the positive, uplifting messages that many religions offer, I found I could not accept the strict belief requirements most churches demanded of their followers before they were willing to accept that person into the fold. The notion of a personal yet supernatural god no longer made sense, and the multitude of churches who said that only they held the absolute truth exposed the lie for what it was.

I didn't turn away from religion, I grew past it. It is mired in superstition and beliefs that separate people from each other and from their planet. This I find offensive. So I've moved beyond the god concept and am attempting to show that we have value as individuals and deserve to enjoy life. Not because some god said so, but because we're all humans, and concern for one another does not have to rely on religion.

Lullaby Chainer · Dec 23, 2006, 03:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: KillerArgument

Lull,

I have webtv, not sure that quote thng works with it. Sorry for the bad formatting.

How do you click on submit? Or jump to page? Or to a new section?

"Tab" on my keyboard goes through every button.

I don't see how you could navigate the site with webtv.. but fail in clicking a certain button.

**Jack** · Dec 23, 2006, 03:26 pm

Maybe Santa will bring him a regular computer for Xmas? (I didn't even know WebTV was still available)

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 04:12 pm

It's ok just to talk, and not debate all the time, right?

Isherwood, I sense that you have a settled conviction. Much more convincing than those who just rail against another position.
Thism is a really cool thing that I have noiced seems to happen in people over 50.

I wonder what Christian churches these were that were demanding so much of you doctrinally...

It starts with "Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and rose again."

Once you believe that, the Holy Spirit indwells you and the rest develops over time.

Christians are free to explore life under God's grace. Free to develop logic and science and creativity.

KillerArgument · Dec 23, 2006, 04:14 pm

Lullaby,

I can use the quote button, I just don't know how to go back and forth between quote and comment within the same post, as you guys are doing...

Lullaby Chainer · Dec 23, 2006, 04:36 pm

Quote:

Quote by: KillerArgument

Lullaby,

I can use the quote button, I just don't know how to go back and forth between quote and comment within the same post, as you guys are doing...

**Chris the Chees** · Dec 23, 2006, 04:45 pm

Quote:

Quote by: KillerArgument

Lullaby,

I can use the quote button, I just don't know how to go back and forth between quote and comment within the same post, as you guys are doing...

If you find that you cannot use the quote button, then I advice that you try adding the quote tags manually (I do anyway).

For details on using tags, feal free to check out this guide on adding tags. if you have any problems at all, please feal free to send me a PM and I will be happy to expand in any way I can.

Dec 23, 2006, 01:00 pm	#101 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Isherwood, You win. I cannot prove that assertion. Score one for the calm rational thinker Isherwood. I like how you think. And if people's conscience doesn't point them toward God, what is all the atheist fascination with Bible theology? Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 01:29 pm	#103 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Chainer, Learn how to respond to points. Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 01:43 pm	#104 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Is there a form of debate where each person says what they believe, and then the other person says, "No, I believe this." I guess that's discussion, not debate. I am bored with logic and evidence--tell me what you believe, and why. Strict adherence to these two things is boring and often not true (which is why there is so much of sarcasm and personal attacks)--logic can go in any direction--evidence can be used to support but not prove, a lot of things. Tedious. Boring. Nonproductive. Why not debate, discuss and learn from each other? Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 01:45 pm	#106 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Isherwood, I know that you are against God. But, personally, what are you FOR? Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 01:49 pm	#107 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Lull, I have webtv, not sure that quote thng works with it. Sorry for the bad formatting. Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 02:24 pm	#110 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Isherwood, Not trying to be funny here, but are you in the church of atheism? An atheist minister? I don't get it. Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 02:27 pm	#111 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Sorry, I am on a few boards, so don't quite know how things work here. Is this "Melted Cheese" moniker a rating of my experience? Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 02:40 pm	#113 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Thanks, Isherwood. At least you aren't nasty like so many debaters. Why did you turn from Christianity? Is there a formal name for your church? Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 03:26 pm	#116 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 12,997	Maybe Santa will bring him a regular computer for Xmas? (I didn't even know WebTV was still available) The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Dec 23, 2006, 04:12 pm	#117 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	It's ok just to talk, and not debate all the time, right? Isherwood, I sense that you have a settled conviction. Much more convincing than those who just rail against another position. Thism is a really cool thing that I have noiced seems to happen in people over 50. I wonder what Christian churches these were that were demanding so much of you doctrinally... It starts with "Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and rose again." Once you believe that, the Holy Spirit indwells you and the rest develops over time. Christians are free to explore life under God's grace. Free to develop logic and science and creativity. Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name

Dec 23, 2006, 04:14 pm	#118 (permalink) (top)
KillerArgument Igneous Magma Posts: 185	Lullaby, I can use the quote button, I just don't know how to go back and forth between quote and comment within the same post, as you guys are doing... Jesus saves all who believe that He died on the cross for their sins, was buried, and rose on the third day. Please see my website and blog links at www.graceandtruth.name