God Does Not Exist

[Gods_Mercenary]

Your post is a perfect example to the atheists that reinforces their beliefs of what christians are. if you had presented a post that actually argued logically against Castle's points, I would have reacted differently.

[KillerArgument]

Isherwood:

Humans are dependent on God for existence.

God has rules--and punishments.

Life has NO ultimate meaning without God.

[Gods_Mercenary]

We are not arguing to believers, you can't throw that stuff at them. They'll simply say "You have no proof of God" and they'll be right. You have to use logic to defuse their claims, and that really just annoys them, because we don't have a logical argument that God exists.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Please use the quote feature! Thanks!

Quote by: KillerArgument K: God knows about suffering, Jesus tortured on the cross certainly knows about pain and suffering. God allows suffering because it is the logical result of sin.

This is so annoying.. damn religion..

Ok, KillerArgument, tell me about Heaven. Is there much suffering in Heaven?

Quote by: KillerArgument Suffering is painful, but it is also often just. Hell is the painful glory of God on those who thought they could defy God Almighty. God's answer, in effect, is: NO. I AM GOD. YOU WILL SUFFER FOREVER FOR YOUR DEFIANCE AGAINST ME, FOR YOUR EVIL AND FOR YOUR SIN. YOU WERE WRONG, AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG. SAYS WHO? SAYS ME--GOD ALMIGHTY.

Do you think it's cute to misquote your own god? Give me a verse.

Quote by: KillerArgument >K: Nonsense. The entire creation is proof of God's existence. There is no human who does not know that God exists. There is no human who is not accountable to God.

Are you insane? I have never seen something so unbelievably worrisome since I joined this site.

"The entire creation is proof of God's existence."

What god?
Why your god and not another?
Why a god?

"There is no human who does not know God exists."

Are you trolling? You can't be serious. I suggest you actually back up your own absurd claims or do us all a favor and leave your lies to yourself. Even the Christians here know that this is just plain silly of you.

Quote by: KillerArgument >K: Hell's purpose is the glory of God forced upon those who reject Him.

How does one reject something that does not exist?

What finite sin deserves infinite torture?

The only being deserving of Hell is your sadistic god.

Quote by: KillerArgument Hell is the punishment for sin. God's justice involves giving unhappiness to those evil people who have sinned, and pain to those who think they can defy God and spit in His face with impunity.

Do you even know what justice means? I sincerely hope you don't really think that infinite punishment for finite crimes is justice. You scare me. You really do. I honestly fear for human life when someone could actually fool themselves into believing these things.

Quote by: KillerArgument God's grace is full forgiveness to those who believe in Jesus, our substitute sacrifice. Jesus is your only hope. Today is the day of salvation.

There is no solid evidence that Jesus even existed.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Your post is a perfect example to the atheists that reinforces their beliefs of what christians are. if you had presented a post that actually argued logically against Castle's points, I would have reacted differently.

I'd have to agree.

I can respect a theist for believing what he does just as much as I can respect an atheist for believing what he does.

But when people like killer come around, I worry about what religion is doing to some minds. It scares me to death to think there really are some people stuck in the bronze age.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: KillerArgument Isherwood: Humans are dependent on God for existence. God has rules--and punishments. Life has NO ultimate meaning without God.

Sure there does. There are metaphysical meanings, personal meanings, philosophical meanings, and guess what Killer.. there is meaning with ANY god.

So please, do us all a favor and learn how to debate. This isn't church. You can't preach to everyone and expect them to listen to your threats of Hell.

Debate please. Debate.

[KillerArgument]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Please use the quote feature! Thanks! KA Thank you. This is so annoying.. damn religion.. KA Yeah, I hate religion, too. Ok, KillerArgument, tell me about Heaven. Is there much suffering in Heaven? KA None. Do you think it's cute to misquote your own god? Give me a verse. KA Not cute, just aggregating the basic ideas. Are you insane? I have never seen something so unbelievably worrisome since I joined this site. KA Maybe I am insane. I am wondering why you are worried about what an insane person writes. That seems pretty crazy to me. "The entire creation is proof of God's existence." What god? Why your god and not another? Why a god? KA The Creator God--there is only one and you know it. KA There must be a God because spontaneous generation is scientifically impossible. "There is no human who does not know God exists." Are you trolling? You can't be serious. I suggest you actually back up your own absurd claims or do us all a favor and leave your lies to yourself. Even the Christians here know that this is just plain silly of you. KA Well, I am feeling very insecure because no one is on my side--except God. KA: What would you accept as backing up any given argument that would not be circular? Please provide an example. KA How do you know my claims are absurd? KA How do you know I speak lies? KA How about backing up YOUR groundless claims? How does one reject something that does not exist? KA God does exist. What finite sin deserves infinite torture? KA Any sin against an infinite God. And not just the sin but the state of sin--evil. The state you are in right now. The only being deserving of Hell is your sadistic god. KA Why is He deserving of Hell? Please try to be rational in your next post. Do you even know what justice means? I sincerely hope you don't really think that infinite punishment for finite crimes is justice. You scare me. You really do. I honestly fear for human life when someone could actually fool themselves into believing these things. KA I think you are the one who has no idea the enormity of your evil. You are the one who doesn't know what justice means. There is no solid evidence that Jesus even existed.

KA You are in disagreement with over 95% of all historians, Christian and secular--not to mention, Jesus disagrees with you.

[KillerArgument]

Lullaby,

Is debate a total waste of time?

People come in here with beliefs.

They present evidence within the rules of logic--sometimes, myself included.

There's a lot of insults, bickering and hard feelngs.

Show me a brief example of an argument you consider unassailable, please.

If there is no such thing, I will continue on as I have.

If there is no basketball hoop, then don't tell me you just scored.

If there is no example of a winning game, then why are we here?

If there is a hoop, define the game by example, not by the rules of logic, but by an irrefutably winning scenario.

Thanks.

[KillerArgument]

Lullaby,

Those are not ultimate meanings.

And, by the way, YOU are listening to God's threats.

[KillerArgument]

Mercenary,

Which part was illogical?

[KillerArgument]

god will continue to be redefined by Christianity as arguments proving it illogical surface.


How has God been redefined?

[KillerArgument]

Mercenary,

And they have no logical argument proving God does not exist. Should we all therefore log off and forget it?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: KillerArgument KA You are in disagreement with over 95% of all historians, Christian and secular--not to mention, Jesus disagrees with you.

Appeal to authority is a fallacy. So is non-factual information. :)

In a debate, dear, you need to support fact-based claims. You'll get it eventually.

Quote by: KillerArgument Lullaby, Those are not ultimate meanings. And, by the way, YOU are listening to God's threats.

No, I'm not. I'm listening to you preach when you should be debating. (assuming you even know how?)

[Gods_Mercenary]

No, we show them that our beliefs are logical enough so that they can't be proven contradictary outright. This debate is relatively futile, but it helps us clarify our beliefs for ourselves and correct inconsistencies.

Your sermon about salvation was illogical because you went into a tirade about what you believe when we're not talking about what you believe, but instead defending that believing is just as logical as not believing

[Gods_Mercenary]

Lullaby is right about not preaching.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: KillerArgument Lullaby, Is debate a total waste of time? People come in here with beliefs. They present evidence within the rules of logic--sometimes, myself included. There's a lot of insults, bickering and hard feelngs. Show me a brief example of an argument you consider unassailable, please.

Sure!

Quote by: KillerArgument Humans are dependent on God for existence. God has rules--and punishments. Life has NO ultimate meaning without God.

Quote by: KillerArgument Those are not ultimate meanings. And, by the way, YOU are listening to God's threats.

Killer, either you're very confused about where you are.. or you're a troll.

[Zhavric]

Quote by: KillerArgument a) God would know about, be able to stop, and want to stop needless suffering K: God knows about suffering, Jesus tortured on the cross certainly knows about pain and suffering. God allows suffering because it is the logical result of sin.

Please support the bolded assertion. Please explain why you and other apologists have created the false dilemma of free will and the existence of suffering.

Suffering is painful, but it is also often just.

Explaining why an all-loving god inflicts (through inaction) suffering is a little like attempting to explain why an all-powerful being cannot lift a 50 lbs rock: it's nonsensical.

An all-loving god would be absolutely compelled to eliminate suffering or else lose the title "all-loving".

>K: Nonsense. The entire creation is proof of God's existence. There is no human who does not know that God exists. There is no human who is not accountable to God.

I'm afraid the only nonsense is quoted above. Claiming the Christian god is responsible for creation is a type of "god of the gaps" reasoning. It's the same logic that says "Zeus created thunder" and "Ra created the sun". We know that complex structures occur naturally. Thus, your argument fails.

And kindly cease making statements like "There is no human who does not know that God exists". Such statements are demonstrably false and useless in a debate. They are the other side of the coin from "all theists KNOW god doesn't exist and are just brainwashed". You'll NEVER see me make such an argument because it's just silly.

>K: Hell's purpose is the glory of God forced upon those who reject Him.

Smile. There is no hell.

God's grace is full forgiveness to those who believe in Jesus, our substitute sacrifice. Jesus is your only hope. Today is the day of salvation.

The gospel Jesus never existed.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Stop refuting him like he's making an actual argument.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Stop refuting him like he's making an actual argument.

If we don't, he might think his points are good enough to go unanswered. He just needs to learn, that's all.

[KillerArgument]

Lullaby,

If appeal to authority is a "fallacy"--why are the laws of logic valid?