The Christmas Hoax

[rez]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary People having ambition makes Christianity bogus, then I guess all human institutions are useless

You call it ambition I call it Power hunger.

Humans make mistakes

Well considering the fact that humans can barely tell a consistent story to six different people moments after an event happened and the fact that the story of Jesus has been told for thousands of years I would have to conclude that Christianity is bogus.

[Gods_Mercenary]

The Bible has been in its current form for well over a thousand years, so that cuts down your timetable considerably. Plus, a believer would say that the historical facts are less important than the religious truths.

What difference does it make if you call it power hunger? Anyway, few, if any, of the first Christians benefited politically from their beliefs, unless you call being crucified political advancement.

[rez]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary The Bible has been in its current form for well over a thousand years, so that cuts down your timetable considerably.

my timetable becomes bigger...

Plus, a believer would say that the historical facts are less important than the religious truths.

Another reason why Christianity is bogus. The religion has so many different believers that they can't even agree on the word of their god. One believer would agree with you, but another would think the historical facts are important.

What difference does it make if you call it power hunger?

The agenda of those seeking power, seek it for their own advantage reguardless of anybody else.

[Gods_Mercenary]

How does your timetable become bigger when the record depended on an oral tradition for only, at most, a few hundred years?

We're arguing why the date of Christmas makes the religion bogus, remember? Any other reasons can't be used.

Anyway, all believers agree on the word of God,(The Bible) just not the interpretation. Your logic would make the U.S. constitution bogus because some people interpret it differently.

[Jack]

Your logic would make the U.S. constitution bogus because some people interpret it differently.

Except that I know of no one who claims the Constitution is absolute truth as they do their interpretation of the bible. There can only be one absolute truth, if there is any at all. So who possesses it, the Catholics, the Pentecostals, the Mormons?

[Gods_Mercenary]

My denomination (Catholic) believes that it's interpretation is correct, but I've never heard a priest claim that no one else could possibly be correct. We allow for the possibility that we are wrong. either way, no one but the most fundemental Christians believes that only those in their denominations will be saved.

You've never heard anyone claim that only their interpretation of the constitution is correct, where have you been?

[rez]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary You've never heard anyone claim that only their interpretation of the constitution is correct, where have you been?

yeah, but there is always someone to counter claim that their interpretation is the truth too. Humans are silly, and that is why religion is bogus.

Quote by: Apokalupsis It's an issue of equivocation. The "season" at one time, was pagan. Christians didn't celebrate in the festivities. And in order to "combat" or detract from the pagan practice, the early Church started celebrating the birth of Jesus during this time. Eventually, this new reason for celebrating overshadowed that of the pagan's. It became the new reason for the season.

This is just Abrahamic monotheistic religion taking over a holiday from a polytheistic religion. I can see why a part of Christianity is bogus because of this, but I am sure there are reasons why the early Church felt the need to overshadow a pagan holiday. Can you give me legit reasons?

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Cephus It's like celebrating your birthday on the same day Joe was born, even though it's not your birthday and then complaining because people go to Joe's birthday party because he's somehow 'stolen' your day.

And yet even in this example, it does not mean that either "you" or "Joe" do not exist. That's all i'm saying.

Quote by: rez This is just Abrahamic monotheistic religion taking over a holiday from a polytheistic religion. I can see why a part of Christianity is bogus because of this, but I am sure there are reasons why the early Church felt the need to overshadow a pagan holiday. Can you give me legit reasons?

Sure... It is easier to convert people to your religion when you can tell them they get to keep having all the same parties they do now.

Also, from a government or employment standpoint, it's easier to get authority figures to accept your religion when you're not asking for any more time off of work... :)

[Jack]

You've never heard anyone claim that only their interpretation of the constitution is correct, where have you been?

I didn't say correct, I said absolute truth.

[rez]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Sure... It is easier to convert people to your religion when you can tell them they get to keep having all the same parties they do now. Also, from a government or employment standpoint, it's easier to get authority figures to accept your religion when you're not asking for any more time off of work... :)

All of those are bogus reasons though, I want a reason like "Christians were trying to make it their holiday to save pagan worshipers from going to hell"

[Gods_Mercenary]

I'm not gonna fall for that trick. The simple fact is that putting Christmas on its date was easier. Last time I checked doing something because it is expedient doesn't make the entire thing wrong.

[rez]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I'm not gonna fall for that trick. The simple fact is that putting Christmas on its date was easier. Last time I checked doing something because it is expedient doesn't make the entire thing wrong.

so it was for marketing reasons. I think that makes a part of the religion bogus.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Not the whole thing. And I'll agree that the current american version of Christmas is bogus

[rez]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Not the whole thing. And I'll agree that the current american version of Christmas is bogus

Youre are no fun, a real Christian would make up better reasons why Christmas was assigned on the 25th.

[Gods_Mercenary]

You mean those fundementalist kooks? try getting that joe guy, I'l have fun watching that.

[Cephus]

Quote by: tivodan1116 And yet even in this example, it does not mean that either "you" or "Joe" do not exist. That's all i'm saying.

You're out there jousting at windmills though, no one has ever made the claims you're arguing against.

In short, the original argument was "Jesus is not the reason for the season". That is unquestionably true. The reasons that the early Christian church adopted this time of year had nothing whatsoever to do with the birth of Jesus. This is also unquestionably true. You're off in left field arguing the existence of Jesus but you're really talking to yourself.

[Jack]

Rez, the secret that christians won't tell you is that it's all based on numerology. You see, December is the 12th month, and 12 is a sacred number. The 25th was chosen because 2+5=7, and 7 is another sacred number.

Next, we'll discuss how numerology reveals that Falwell is the anti-christ.

:rolleyes:

[RickSp]

Quote by: Isherwood Next, we'll discuss how numerology reveals that Falwell is the anti-christ. :rolleyes:

I thought that that was obvious just by inspection.

[jeffl]

How about the choice of dec. 25 serving as an indictment of the mithraism that dashed the body of Christ to pieces? At the same time there is a significant measure of truth, given that the need for contracts (Abraham's God, and the root of mithras) is what compelled the written word in the first place.