God and an After-life

[Ken Carman]

My newest Inspection column has been published. Many people believe that after-life/God give life meaning. Some believe that the absence of such gives life meaning...

So, here... (is my) question... for those readers who care to respond to this week’s Inspection. What is it about belief, or lack of belief, that gives anyone so much meaning that life itself would be useless, or senseless, if you found out you were wrong?

If you wish to read the whole column before you respond you can click... HERE ...

Or the on-site version is HERE.


Note... if you have had trouble viewing the on-site edition, I have had to delete it twice and repost. Something about the computers I use and the blogs here don't communicate when it comes to the edit feature. It should be OK now... 11/30 at 3:26 CST

[samsara15]

I always liked the quote that all the people I think are interesting would be in Hell; if I'm wrong they're not, and neither am I. I'm simply not. Existing, that is. I vary from panthiest, agnostic, or athiest, depending on my mood and who has presented their case best to me lately. In any case, this is the only life we will ever have, as far as we can prove, so we better make the most of it. Don't count on anything else.

[Kuldeep]

A good suggestion by samsara 15.Even if we exist after life and face God, we are wise enough to tackle that situation as well as here. I framed an important law which would help us to be satisfied.

"Learn from the Past,

Enjoy Present,
&
Plan future!"

[Zhavric]

Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it?

Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife.

As advanced social mammals, we humans have an incredibly powerful survival instinct. We want to keep on living and view the suicidal as deeply disturbed / deviant.

As intelligent as we are, we're able to understand that we do not, in fact, go on forever and that we will eventually die.

Powerful primal instinct versus cold calculating logic: I must live. I know I won't.

Our rational minds will look for some sort of compromise even if that compromise is completely irrational. Human beings will always and have always feared death and seek to avoid it. The alleged "afterlife" that religions offer is gobbled up by humans because it reconciles the conflict between our reason and instinct. We die, but we don't really die / cheat death / etc.

It's no wonder that religions are so popular. Think about them as a product being sold to you.

Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it?

Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and (like the healthy chocolate example) we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: samsara15 Don't count on anything else.

I don't. But I do like to imagine, as so many have... Robin William's Dreams May Come offered one interesting version of such an after-life. I often wonder if Bettlejuice might have it right. Since the here and now seems adequately screwed up, whose to say the after-life, if it exists, isn't? Well, a lot of people, actually, but that certainly doesn't eliminate the possibility. "A lot of people" have been wrong many, many times before.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Zhavric Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it? Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife. As advanced social mammals, we humans have an incredibly powerful survival instinct. We want to keep on living and view the suicidal as deeply disturbed / deviant. As intelligent as we are, we're able to understand that we do not, in fact, go on forever and that we will eventually die. Powerful primal instinct versus cold calculating logic: I must live. I know I won't. Our rational minds will look for some sort of compromise even if that compromise is completely irrational. Human beings will always and have always feared death and seek to avoid it. The alleged "afterlife" that religions offer is gobbled up by humans because it reconciles the conflict between our reason and instinct. We die, but we don't really die / cheat death / etc. It's no wonder that religions are so popular. Think about them as a product being sold to you. Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it? Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and (like the healthy chocolate example) we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife.

Hmmm... interesting analogy.

Existence is interesting, and terrifying, and boring enough for now, thank you. But an eternity putting up with it? Not sure I'm all that interested. It would have to be awful damn good.

[pahl]

Naa, i'd want to live fore ever. As long as im not by my self, that would be boring. Hell or Heaven, as long as i got a social life (death?) id take it.

By the way awsome post Zhavric, looks like you put some thought in to it.

[Stewbert]

One could argue that our envy and hope of a better afterlife proves that we regard the human condition as an unimportant process of buying a ticket for what lies after. Therefore, the idea of an afterlife contributes to the failure of humanity.

[The Architect]

Naa, i'd want to live fore ever. As long as im not by my self, that would be boring. Hell or Heaven, as long as i got a social life (death?) id take it.

Why would you want to live forever, arent you at least bit curious to see if there is anything after life? I sure wouldnt want to live forever, reincarnated is a different story, that would be kind of cool.

[pahl]

Why would you want to live forever, arent you at least bit curious to see if there is anything after life? I sure wouldnt want to live forever, reincarnated is a different story, that would be kind of cool.

I dont know what is after death, and that frightends me. I just rather play it safe i guess.
Cause there's a possiblilty that you wont get to see whats after death, if there is nothing there.

[Stewbert]

You shouldn't be frightened of death. If we took a record of every organism that has ever lived in the history of the universe, the ones currently alive would be a very very small minority. What lies after life is unknown and unchangeable. Therefore, the only thing worth fearing is reason for regret when life is over.

[pahl]

Well of course you shouldent, especially since death is inevitable. But in a theoretical situation i would still choose eternal life over death.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: pahl I dont know what is after death, and that frightends me. I just rather play it safe i guess. Cause there's a possiblilty that you wont get to see whats after death, if there is nothing there.

Odd, I've always looked upon it as either an adventure, or an opportunity to clean house... perhaps in the permanent; complete, even nothing afterwards, sense. Now the process of getting there? That's scares the hell out of me. I don't want to know it's coming, I hope it's so quick the nerves don't have time to react, and I certainly don't want to spend day after day in agony, falling apart... YUCK!

[Amuse]

Quote by: pahl Well of course you shouldent, especially since death is inevitable. But in a theoretical situation i would still choose eternal life over death.

I believe you do live forever. This life is just one act of the play. Eternal life in heaven has no more redeemable value than does eternity in hell. We do life by playing different rolls each life time. The show must go on!.......

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Amuse I believe you do live forever. This life is just one act of the play. Eternal life in heaven has no more redeemable value than does eternity in hell. We do life by playing different rolls each life time. The show must go on!.......

My mother died when I was young. I remember asking him if she was "in heaven." He looked at me, smiled, and said, "no I think she's still alive." Wondering if my normally sane father had been driven over the edge by losing his wife I responded, "WWhaaaaaaaaaaat?"

He said that he believed that when we die we simply skip to another plane of existence where, perhaps, she had gotten better. Or maybe she was alive, elsewhere, and had never been sick, but he had died from one of his three heart attacks.

To my father, a William F. Buckley follower, candidate and activist for the Conservative Party in the NYC area, everything possible, and maybe much of what we feel is impossible, exists somewhere. I woke up at that point, realizing that when we make generalizations about these people we label as Conservative, Liberal, Democrats, Liberals... whatever, what we have done is we have is only made vast simplifications: cheaply disquising the complexity of any individual.

I had had similar musings about what happens after death myself.

Is that what happens?

Don't know.

As far as heaven or hell go, if they exist, I tend to believe what the wife of Albert Payson Terhune claimed her husband told her from the grave. (Not that he actually did, however... in that case... don't know.) I think any heaven or hell are most likely the same place. Like life, they are what we make them.

[Zhavric]

What are you talking about?

OF COURSE we should fear death.

It sucks.

Everyting you've ever thought, felt, hoped, dreamed and remembered winks out in a moment never to return. Everyone you know and love will eventually disapear without a trace.

It's inevitable, it's terrifying, it's not fair, and the only weapon we have against it is delusion.

"For all the points on the compass, there's really only one direction and time is it's only measure."

-"Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead", Tom Stoppard

[The Architect]

OF COURSE we should fear death

So you want to live your entire life fearing the end, always thinking at any one moment you could be swept off this earth, it sounds like a sucky life.

[dreamer]

Quote by: Zhavric Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it? Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife. As advanced social mammals, we humans have an incredibly powerful survival instinct. We want to keep on living and view the suicidal as deeply disturbed / deviant. As intelligent as we are, we're able to understand that we do not, in fact, go on forever and that we will eventually die. Powerful primal instinct versus cold calculating logic: I must live. I know I won't. Our rational minds will look for some sort of compromise even if that compromise is completely irrational. Human beings will always and have always feared death and seek to avoid it. The alleged "afterlife" that religions offer is gobbled up by humans because it reconciles the conflict between our reason and instinct. We die, but we don't really die / cheat death / etc. It's no wonder that religions are so popular. Think about them as a product being sold to you. Do you have an instinct to eat chocolate? Is it a powerful one? Do you have rational thoughts that tell you chocolate will make you fat / unhealthy? If someone came along and introduced a chocolate that was 100% healthy, wouldn't you buy it? Now, think about how much stronger your survival instinct is and (like the healthy chocolate example) we begin to understand the memetic draw of religion / an afterlife.

strong willed or weak willed,hmmmmmmm how to control ones will,It depends on ones mental capacity.

[Stewbert]

Everyting you've ever thought, felt, hoped, dreamed and remembered winks out in a moment never to return.

True, but it depends on what your dreams are and what stage of achieving your dreams and hopes you are at. Martin Luther King Jr's dream did not wink out the moment he died. It is carried on and taken up by the next generation to continue his strive.

Personally, I don't have a distinct dream such as becoming a famous or whatever. When I die, I want to think back and be satisfied with my "response" to the world. If I don't get a chance to produce a piece of art, write a book, or share my ideas, I will realize that the significance of my life lies in the impact I've had on other people and hope that I have improved humanity in the least bit.

Once people "find peace" with the achievements and mistakes of their life, they have achieved their dream.

[Jack]

OF COURSE we should fear death.

It's illogical to fear the inevitable.

We humans often fear the outcome of our present actions. That fear helps us quit smoking, lose weight, start exercising. Our fear is logical because we can effect a change on the outcome of those situations.

We cannot effect a change on the outcome of life. It always, 100% of the time ends in death.

Our fear of death may have positive results if it causes us to behave in more healthy fashions, live less dangerously, etc. But the effects are limited to deferment. We can hope to postpone death, but we can't escape it.

For those reasons I say the fear of death is illogical. Death should not invoke fear. The awareness of the inevitability of death should make us determined to enjoy this life as much as possible.