God and an After-life

[dreamer]

Quote by: Isherwood It's illogical to fear the inevitable. We humans often fear the outcome of our present actions. That fear helps us quit smoking, lose weight, start exercising. Our fear is logical because we can effect a change on the outcome of those situations. We cannot effect a change on the outcome of life. It always, 100% of the time ends in death. Our fear of death may have positive results if it causes us to behave in more healthy fashions, live less dangerously, etc. But the effects are limited to deferment. We can hope to postpone death, but we can't escape it. For those reasons I say the fear of death is illogical. Death should not invoke fear. The awareness of the inevitability of death should make us determined to enjoy this life as much as possible.

Unpredictable nature of life allows for confidence Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities can separate us from the love of God.

Immediately after our bodies die, our souls will be transported to an eternal existence in the spiritual realm.

What that means for the Christian, the believer in Christ, is an instantaneous trip into the presence of the Lord.

For the unbeliever, who will also live on after physical death, the opposite will be true.

When they are absent from the body, they will be separated from God in eternity as they await the final judgment.

[Jack]

Respectfully, everything you said only applies to christians. Unbelievers do not share those beliefs, nor do others of other faiths.

[dreamer]

Respectfully, It depends on ones mental capacity on ones own faith.

[rcne]

Quote by: dreamer Respectfully, It depends on ones mental capacity on ones own faith.

Or one's illusionary delusion. Only a small percentage of the world's population believe in the trinity you refer to. Many others seek God or the Godhead directly; partially in seeking an answer or hope of an afterlife.

Why fear death, it just another part of the cycle. Any path you chose leads inevitably to the same destination. All paths are basically equal, so take your pick.

[dreamer]

Quote by: rcne Or one's illusionary delusion. Only a small percentage of the world's population believe in the trinity you refer to. Many others seek God or the Godhead directly; partially in seeking an answer or hope of an afterlife. Why fear death, it just another part of the cycle. Any path you chose leads inevitably to the same destination. All paths are basically equal, so take your pick.

My own path is mine and mine only, so i will take that path which i chooce that will be my destination.

Why fear death when death never comes to the soul, only the body.

[Jimmy the Pro]

Quote by: Isherwood It's illogical to fear the inevitable.

while this is true, emotions also reside in the mind, and when the time comes I feel that emotions may take over our logic.

[Yasa]

Quote by: ldmaniac while this is true, emotions also reside in the mind, and when the time comes I feel that emotions may take over our logic.

Agreed.

[rcne]

Quote by: dreamer My own path is mine and mine only, so i will take that path which i chooce that will be my destination.

Now if only each human would only chose their own path, a large proportion of this world's troubles would be over.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Ken Carman Hmmm... interesting analogy. Existence is interesting, and terrifying, and boring enough for now, thank you. But an eternity putting up with it? Not sure I'm all that interested. It would have to be awful damn good.

Inspite of logic and rationality, knowing everybody who was born did die, nobody's inner most mind truly agrees even for a fraction of second he would die or better seize to exist anytime. This is most astonishing fact in the world. Therefore, from thisa we can deduce actually we live eternally changing body after body. Memory of past life by some (very very very rare) confirms my deduction!!!! :)

[Zhavric]

In re-reading my post, I can see where some of you have taken the idea that I implied we should live in fear of death. That was poor wording on my part. Instead, we need to live life wary of death and have a healthy fear of it, yet not live in fear of it.

Death is sort of like a grizzly bear: you can delude yourself into thinking it's going to be something cute & cuddly, but it's far better to have a healthy fear / respect of it. You'll end up living better for it.

[samsara15]

Reincarnation is of interest to me, but if the continuity of consciousness is broken,would it really be ourselves? If we do reincarnate, I don't think it is necessarily on this planet, probably rarely so. A living being cannot conceive of its non-existence without seeking some sort of escape clause.

[luke virtual kh]

Meaning comes from psychial context.
Death as annhialation is the end of the possibility of psychial context.
Therefore death heralds the end of all possible personal meaning.

Life is not therefore meaningless, but rather it's meaning is temporary.
We create our own meanings (some of them delusory).

The meaning we give to life may memetically live on after our death, and this truth comes from a composite of learning from others and original thought.

Let's make the most of our ability to create meanings...but let's not delude ourselves in the process. I mean....

(you can imagine what I mean).

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Zhavric What are you talking about? OF COURSE we should fear death. It sucks. Everyting you've ever thought, felt, hoped, dreamed and remembered winks out in a moment never to return. Everyone you know and love will eventually disapear without a trace. It's inevitable, it's terrifying, it's not fair, and the only weapon we have against it is delusion. "For all the points on the compass, there's really only one direction and time is it's only measure." -"Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead", Tom Stoppard

Everything you've ever thought, felt, hoped, dreamed and remembered winks out in a moment never to return. Everyone you know and love will eventually disapear without a trace.

In the more scientific sense, as far as we know, yes. Well, let's see... everything I know. I've known some marvelous things, and some pretty shitty moments too. Overall? It's a draw, for the most part. If it is the end of all, well there's a lot I won't have to put up with. Non-existence has no pleasure, but it has no pains, either.

Love the Stoppard quote although, once again... as far as we know now. Pretty realistic comment for an absurdist play.

Delusion the only weapon? I think not. Basically acceptance. Now, as I said before, the process of getting there? That I fear.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: samsara15 Reincarnation is of interest to me, but if the continuity of consciousness is broken,would it really be ourselves? If we do reincarnate, I don't think it is necessarily on this planet, probably rarely so. A living being cannot conceive of its non-existence without seeking some sort of escape clause.

In a sense the me I am now is no longer the self I was twenty years ago... maybe even yesterday. Change happens on both a cellular and a personal level. So, if we could go back in time and meet who we were would we really be... "beside ourselves?"

Reincarnation is an interesting bag of worms. Maybe, in so many ways, it's best we don't eat them by finding out who we were... but then how do we learn from past lives. A fascinating conundrum.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: luke virtual kh Meaning comes from psychial context. Death as annhialation is the end of the possibility of psychial context. Therefore death heralds the end of all possible personal meaning. Life is not therefore meaningless, but rather it's meaning is temporary. We create our own meanings (some of them delusory). The meaning we give to life may memetically live on after our death, and this truth comes from a composite of learning from others and original thought. Let's make the most of our ability to create meanings...but let's not delude ourselves in the process. I mean.... (you can imagine what I mean).

If you meant to type "physical" I would have to clarify that most meaning, not all, comes from physical context... but first it is filtered through the mental, as is everything. There are those who live mostly inside their own heads, and that's not always a sign of insanity... although it frequently can be.

I typed "not all" because flights of imagination tend to use what we learn from the physical world to jump into fictional places... hence The Matrix, most fantasy... etc.

We create our own meanings

Yes.


The memes we create, or the ones we're allowed to filter into society, often do last beyond the body. Unfortunately historians and society twist them and pervert them. For instance, if there was a singular "Jesus," rather than some composite character as some believe, I suspect he would be sickened by whatever memes he started turned into.

[dreamer]

Quote by: rcne Now if only each human would only chose their own path, a large proportion of this world's troubles would be over.

Well put i have nothing else to say on this matter.

Dreamer

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: samsara15 Reincarnation is of interest to me, but if the continuity of consciousness is broken,would it really be ourselves? If we do reincarnate, I don't think it is necessarily on this planet, probably rarely so. A living being cannot conceive of its non-existence without seeking some sort of escape clause.

I do agree with you if memory and consciousness is broken you won't remain yourself for yourself. Say you lost memory due to head energy. You do not remember anything of the past so much so you do not remember your name and do not recognise any of your past aquintee. But then to all your friends and relatives you continue to be samsara only. This is because you are known to others by the outer contour of face and the body. Again in the second possibility of the accident, your memory remains in tact but your face gets defaced, which is later modified by plastic surgery. When you happen to meet some of friend, who is not aware of your accident, would never understand you are samsara, unless you tell him about accident and change of face contour. But in both the cases, your existance (consciousness that you continue to be someone) is intact.

From above suppositions, I want to impress upon you that neither memory nor the outer contour of the body matters for one's individual state of existance. This state of existance is Consciousness which makes you feel that YOU ARE SOMETHING EXISTING!!!!

This feeling is eternal with all living beings, no matter memory and body contour exists or not. Yes! You are right, this feeling of existence can be anywhere in the universe and beyond even!!!

But, in reality since you and all others around you recognise you by your body contour and memory and take you for granted as the body only. The second thing is a natural instinct that you love you (Your body for that matter) the most. It is logical to imagine at the time of your death, your feeling of existence looks at your own lying body a bit away from you, like a dream. Your body is not following you, which pains you and you grieve for the lost body. Your own wish to retain the lost body which is not possible due to defects developed in it, you like to enter similar most body in some lady's womb as a reincarnated fetus. Naturally, you left your body on this planet, you would like to remain on this planet only.:eek:

I am not sure how much I am clear to you in explaining the supernatural part of you!! Any question, I would be happy to reply.:)

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Ken Carman In a sense the me I am now is no longer the self I was twenty years ago... maybe even yesterday. Change happens on both a cellular and a personal level. So, if we could go back in time and meet who we were would we really be... "beside ourselves?"

I liked the explanation, but do not agree with your claim " I am now is no longer the self I was twenty years ago...even yesterday." What you have explained further is correct but up to physical level only. Personal level is deep rooted mistery. Person, who you actually are, I tried to explain in the post as a reply to samsara. (Pl. refer) Physical reference and/or even memory have no relavance to your real self (the feeling you exist as something). You as child, as teenager, as grown up person, as old man, even as soul does not change. Change is in physical state and even in memory only.

Reincarnation is an interesting bag of worms. Maybe, in so many ways, it's best we don't eat them by finding out who we were... but then how do we learn from past lives. A fascinating conundrum.

Here again I liked your imagination and analogy. We learn from past lives by developing into a uniqe personality with specific nature mood. I appreciate science attributing that to specific group of genes, DNA and RNA etc. I go step backwards mentioning experiences of past lives is the basis of selection of a particular set of genes, RNA etc for a specific individual!!!!

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Kuldeep I liked the explanation, but do not agree with your claim " I am now is no longer the self I was twenty years ago...even yesterday." What you have explained further is correct but up to physical level only. Personal level is deep rooted mistery. Person, who you actually are, I tried to explain in the post as a reply to samsara. (Pl. refer) Physical reference and/or even memory have no relavance to your real self (the feeling you exist as something). You as child, as teenager, as grown up person, as old man, even as soul does not change. Change is in physical state and even in memory only.

Perhaps "altered" is better word. If I were to meet the "me" I was then, I certainly would recognize the similarity, physically. But would I marvel at the change and just how different I am, considering all I've been through? I suspect so. Of course, how could we test this thesis? Until time travel is invented... not likely. So therefore, am I the same person? Yes... and, in a sense, no.

[samsara15]

What if you were computer simulated up to the present moment, complete with accompanying memories, how would you know you were only seconds old? You could not know that the past you remember actually never happened. Just like the old creationist saw about God creating the world six thousand years ago with all appearance of the universe and Earth having been around billions of years? We can be deceived.

There is an old saying that you cannot cross the same river twice, or even once.