Evils of Religion

[Athena]

Religion is good for war and war is good religion. But this is not the only evil of religion. Without doubt religions are full of superstition and myths that are taking for literal facts and this leads to many evils.

Christianity has to answer for:
the witch hunts
the Spanish inquisition
the crusades
the wars between Catholics and Protestants and persecuations of both
the pursecution of Jews
displacing Palestinians with Israel
the devastation of Iraq which is spreading to other countries

Christianity has to answer for:
parents who beat the devil out of their children and other abuses committed by superstitious parents driven by fear instead of love.
People living in fear of two supernatural beings, God and Satan.
People who commit terrible acts believing they are possessed.
Retarding science and delaying the fulfillment of our human potential.
Devastating the earth and denying the correctness of Native American belief that we must care for our planet as it is a living organism.
Delaying medical progress by denying the correctness of the Eastern understanding of the mind body connection.

Time and again religion has stood against truth. It is also blocking our the understanding of morals and ethics resulting from education for good moral judgement and this is devastating to our democracy. People are not bad because they born into sin. They become bad, because they are ignorant or abused. I fight against religious superstition, because it condemns us to hell on earth, and prevents us from achieving heavn on earth. It may even lead to the destruction of all life on earth, and no magical being can rescue us from that.

[Stewbert]

Well said. I'd conclude that overall, religion has enslaved the human race, forcing us into the horrible things you mentioned. Religions have been the slavemasters that drive us to fight like barbarians over a small piece of land in the middle east. People drop all sense of tolerance, civility, and respect in fear of the whip they call "hell".

Machiavelli stated that "it is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." The church (along with other religious establishments) uses a god that is both loved and feared as the perfect, omnipotent slavedriver.

[Osborn F Enready]

I agree.

Doesn't matter what religion you pick, either.

They are all the same, tools to manipulate people.

[Zhavric]

Theists will argue that...

...religion's good aspects will outweigh its bad ones.

... each and every bad thing done in the name of religion should be blamed on the individual who strayed from "the word" and did their own thing.

... other more specific objections such as many of history's greatest thinkers and scientists also being theists.


While I agree with your argument, it does little to prepare for these objections. I recommend you take it a step further and disarm their counter-arguments before they make them.

[Osborn F Enready]

Theists are theists.....

They will believe no matter what, since they put faith above physics, common sense, logic or reason.

Why would I argue with a fundamentalist extremist?

[Stewbert]

...religion's good aspects will outweigh its bad ones.

Yes, religion does give people the incentive to be good. However, like a dictator, it has utilized cruel punishments such as damnation and excommunication to ensure good behavior. By keeping people in fear of eternal torture, religious establishments promote morality but also reap the extra benefits by making their followers go the extra step further in alienating other faiths, fighting wars, and persecuting innocent people. Therefore, in the end, one's morals, intellect, identity and life are controlled by the religion, the ultimate owner of the soul.

... each and every bad thing done in the name of religion should be blamed on the individual who strayed from "the word" and did their own thing.

I agree that some corruptions of religion are products of individuals. However, the most significant, world-shifting wrongs are not caused by people straying from "the word". Often, it is "the Word" itself that demonizes other faiths and praises the followers who smash their idols. Taking Christianity as an example, the Bible explicitly states that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven and that there is ONLY one God. It also contains moralistic stories praising individuals who carry out "the word" through violence (the smashing idols theme, David and Goliath, ...someone..I forgot.. nearly kills his son just to prove his love for God). Therefore, it is, in fact, "the word" itself that puts faith over human life.

... other more specific objections such as many of history's greatest thinkers and scientists also being theists.

This is true as I know many physicists who are religious. However, I doubt they believe that rainbows were "invented" by God after the creation/evolution of man. Also, even a religious scientist may not think that certain aspects of the human condition (such as homosexuality), are punishable by eternal suffering. Most modern theistic scientist do their research in pursuit of finding divinity rather than considering a piece of land more valuable than human life. The point is that brilliant theistic scientists and thinkers are held down by organized religion. The freedom of scientific research and creative thought was a result of secular humanism during the renaissance, a "breaking away" from religious and extreme moral constraint.

[iahag]

Seems the general consensus coming upon people these days is 'religion is undesirable in the longterm'. Well, certainly in the UK at least. And with good reason, it does have the ability to kill us all. Try computing the probability of that!

[Castle]

Quote by: Athena displacing Palestinians with Israel the devastation of Iraq which is spreading to other countries

Please explain how these are the fault of Christianity.

Quote by: Athena Retarding science and delaying the fulfillment of our human potential.

Like how the Catholic Church was the only bastion of learning in the Middle Ages?

Quote by: Athena Devastating the earth and denying the correctness of Native American belief that we must care for our planet as it is a living organism.

I think someone needs to take high school Bio again. The Earth is not alive. It's a planet. A chunk of rock.
And how are environmentally unfriendly practices Christianity's fault?

Quote by: Athena Delaying medical progress by denying the correctness of the Eastern understanding of the mind body connection.

Evidence of said connection?
And how is this Christianity's fault?

I notice a distinct lack of things like "giving to charity" here; perhaps we're getting something of a one-sided view here?

And finally, why is this thread called "evils of religion" rather than "evils of Christianity" when every single example cited is purportedly the result of Christianity?

[Kuldeep]

To my mind, no religion to start with could have any evil in it. It is human prejudice and ugly ego of some faction of humen beings which have demeaned/adultrated for personal interests, the well thought directives laid down by orginators of any religion for that matter. Therefore, the solution to erradicate the virtual/apparent religious evil, human minds interpreting the basics of their religion need be changed.The sooner the better it is for whole world society.

I too agree with Castle that Christainity is not basically responsible for the evils mentioned by Athena. In fact, all religions are evilfree but human mind is evilfull which need a drastic overhauling!!!:)

Yes, I belong to Eastern school of thoughts which centers at the individual improvement through various techinques to evolve a happy healthy and satisfied society.

[Stewbert]

Like how the Catholic Church was the only bastion of learning in the Middle Ages?

True investigations of the human body, human nature, philosophy and art are the result of humanism and the renaissance. If the Church carried on as it did in the Middle Ages, disections would be considered Satanic, the Earth would be the center of the solar system, and the only education you would recieve is literacy so that you can read the Bible. Also, if it wasn't for the humanist movement, women would be deprived of education today.

In fact, all religions are evilfree but human mind is evilfull

Religion is a creation of the human mind. It is an attempt to explain the unexplainable. Religion is not the transcedental order itself, but man's interpretation of it of which there are many different versions. Most of these interpretations contain "human prejudice and ugly ego." That is why "the word" often supports smashing another party's gods (idols,etc). This form of religious violence is the source of many deaths still occurring today. Something I'd consider an evil.

And finally, why is this thread called "evils of religion" rather than "evils of Christianity" when every single example cited is purportedly the result of Christianity?

Agreed. The list provided by Athena illustrates the point by using Christianity's faults. Though such evils occur in other religions as well, Christianity is one of the most well known and influential religions in the world.

Therefore, the solution to erradicate the virtual/apparent religious evil, human minds interpreting the basics of their religion need be changed.The sooner the better it is for whole world society.

individual improvement through various techinques to evolve a happy healthy and satisfied society.

I agree. Spirituality is a personal matter which should be sought by the individual rather than taught by an organization. Finding one's spiritual self is different for everyone. It does not necessarily involve membership in religious establishments.

[Osborn F Enready]

I have NOTHING against individual religion.

I have a problem with ALL organized religions.

What people pray to, how they pray, and what they believe is after death is of no concern to me as a citizen. However, organizations that make millions, billions of dollars, in the name of religion, tax free, and use that organization for voting block power, political movement and influencing "societal change" are the problem, in my book.

I have no problem with religious people, its the organizations they attend and create.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I think the greatest evil of religion is its blatant hypocrisy. Like Osborn said, there is no great problem with individual religion, it is the organization of these groups that is the problem. Christian leaders who are on TV telling the christian masses that we need to kill every last terrorist are obviously not following christian morals. These men cannot seriously believe that they are being good christians, nor do I think they care. They know they're manipulating people and they know there must be some type of personal gain for them for doing so. This has become a new era of crusades, ironically over the same chunk of land with the same religions.

[Fonceai]

I never saw the point with blaming religion for anything.

They offer unproven appeals to emotion to explain how the world works.

How can I blame them for offering something?

I blame the people for blindly accepting the religions, following them, and then defending them so vehemently.

[Nathan Struth]

Do you think the path to better morals would have evolved faster if religion weren'r around? Seeing that the fear of god created a temporary stable society like Rome and Greece. I think it would have evolved faster if there wasn't religion that conflicted with logic and believing the Earth existed for 6000 years (christianity)

[Fonceai]

Moral evolution faster? No.

But the difference between the Pantheon of Gods was that it didn't dominate all aspects of life of the followers like Christianity tries to, for example.

Those Gods also didn't dictate how to live and what punishments were doled out the way other religions do.

It was a Polytheist system, much like Voodoo and the Egyptian religions, where the Gods were more natural forces; they were neither omnipotent nor omniscient.

I think Polytheist religions like those helped a great deal with moral development because they didn't make everything black and white. Every behavior and aspect of life had it's place among the gods, so to speak.

People learned to evaluate and judge their actions based on the life they wanted to live. It was the responsibility of man-made laws to establish punishment and consequence.

[Zhavric]

the only education you would recieve is literacy so that you can read the Bible.

Not true. Remember that for centuries, all the bibles were in Latin and only the clergy could read / speak it.

Christianity is, itself, a form of propaganda. It may have been able to get positive aspects, but it has (like all religions) been about controlling people / having influence over them. The beauty of Christianity is that it's worded just so to make people think they're not being influenced.

[Athena]

[quote=Castle;307954]Please explain how these are the fault of Christianity.
Part of the answer is the “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid” thread.
Following is what Carter's had to say. The link is the Palestine thread.

You have to be careful of the so-called Christian evangelicals because the ones who are most vocal support the so-called “left behind” theories — which call for the final days to come, and the Armageddon, and the premise there, which I think is completely erroneous, by the way, is that in order for Christ to come again, to return, the entire Holy Land has to be swept clean of Muslims and others. But the ultimate stage, according to their beliefs, is that all Jews have to be killed or become Christians. But they do support Israel’s occupation of the West Bank…. I think that’s a completely stupid and ridiculous premise on which to base foreign policy or on which to base support for Israel. My support for Israel is proven and deeply ingrained in my own soul, but I don’t think Israel will ever have peace unless they are willing, as I’ve said earlier, to live within their borders that are reconfirmed even recently with the international quartet’s so-called road map, and that says that United Nations Resolution 242 must be implemented and Israel must withdraw from occupied territory. Like how the Catholic Church was the only bastion of learning in the Middle Ages?

Of course this problem is not just one religion, but all three! It starts with Judaism and the idea that a God can have favorite people, and give them and only them holy land, which they have permission to take through war and genocide. Then the competing Muslims claim their mosque in Jerselam is where Mohammed ascented to heaven, making this holy land theirs. The religious beliefs are not the whole problem, as Britian and the US have used religion to secure for themselves a degree of control over the region.

I think someone needs to take high school Bio again. The Earth is not alive. It's a planet. A chunk of rock. And how are environmentally unfriendly practices Christianity's fault?

Thank you for the example of Christian thinking that is the problem. Either you have not heard the Gia principle or chose to ignor it, but if this plant were only rock, we would not be having this discussion of earth.

Evidence of said connection? And how is this Christianity's fault?

The evidence is Christians rely on the bible for an explanation of everything and warn against those heathens and pagans, causing them to be prejudice of what is not in the bible, and people who are not Christian.

I notice a distinct lack of things like "giving to charity" here; perhaps we're getting something of a one-sided view here?

Yes, there is a distinct lack of things like "giving to charity" because this is not a problem to be fixed. Everything said here is a problem that needs either some accountability as Christians speak of terrorist Muslims, or fixing, as the teaching promotes prejudice. If water is polluted it isn't safe to drink, even though water is necessary for life. All the religions divide and cause trouble, and Christianity is the worse at promoting superstition and ignorance. For example insisting we teach creationism in schools and not evolution.

And finally, why is this thread called "evils of religion" rather than "evils of Christianity" when every single example cited is purportedly the result of Christianity?

Because I know more about Christians than I know about Jews or Muslims, and they have been most influential in repressing progress in the US, making this a really big issue for me, as this impacts my life and struggle to defend democracy, which is an ideology based on science and philosophy not religion, but the Christians claim to be the only ligetimate authority on God and morals, and even claim democracy came from them! Christians historically claim all the good is things are because of them and they should get credit for everything good, and blame the evils on everyone else. I want them to answer for that. There is not one wrong the Christians have not committed, so they should stop attacking Muslims for what they themselves have done, as they falsely believe their religion is superior. Democracy comes from Greek and Roman classics, the pagans, not the bible, and this is what gives Christian in the US any claim at all to any superiority, not their religion which is seeped in superstition. Martin Luther began Protestantism and he believed the witch hunts were necessary, because he was very superstitious and anti semitic. Those who use the bible as their source of information didn't get clean hands when Protestism began dominant, and their part in the mid east conflict is very serious. Because of them, my grandson could be drafted into a war that should have never been started.

[Athena]

Quote by: Nathan Struth Do you think the path to better morals would have evolved faster if religion weren'r around? Seeing that the fear of god created a temporary stable society like Rome and Greece. I think it would have evolved faster if there wasn't religion that conflicted with logic and believing the Earth existed for 6000 years (christianity)

I want to heigh light what you said. People around the world have been highly concerned with morality. I think Christians are most offensive for speaking as they the world would be immoral if not for them. Then making war based on the falsehoods of what they believe.

[Athena]

Quote by: Kuldeep To my mind, no religion to start with could have any evil in it. It is human prejudice and ugly ego of some faction of humen beings which have demeaned/adultrated for personal interests, the well thought directives laid down by orginators of any religion for that matter. Therefore, the solution to erradicate the virtual/apparent religious evil, human minds interpreting the basics of their religion need be changed.The sooner the better it is for whole world society. I too agree with Castle that Christainity is not basically responsible for the evils mentioned by Athena. In fact, all religions are evilfree but human mind is evilfull which need a drastic overhauling!!!:) Yes, I belong to Eastern school of thoughts which centers at the individual improvement through various techinques to evolve a happy healthy and satisfied society.

How well do you understand, to a Christian you are a pagan? They stand in the way of what you believe is important, because they hold they only thing they need to do is worship Jesus and he will save them. They can be extremely prejudiced against other races or ethnically different people, and still believe when they get to the heaven, by some magic, they are made perfect beings fit for heaven. Their belief system just isn't compatable with what you are saying. Christianity does not lead to enlightenment. It leads to ignorance and superstition, and I will stand with this is an evil. When they war, they do so with the belief they are God's favor people. Evangalist believe it is necessary to wipe out the Muslims so the Jew can rebuild their temple, and Jesus will come and finally give them heaven. Yes the religion is evil.

[Castle]

True investigations of the human body, human nature, philosophy and art are the result of humanism and the renaissance. If the Church carried on as it did in the Middle Ages, disections would be considered Satanic, the Earth would be the center of the solar system, and the only education you would recieve is literacy so that you can read the Bible. Also, if it wasn't for the humanist movement, women would be deprived of education today.

All of this may or may not be accurate (religion can change, you know. It's just tough). Regardless, the undeniable fact remains that but for the Catholic Church, the Renaissance could never have occurred when it did. A vast amount of learning would have been lost to Europe, and that would have fundamentally altered the course of history.

But the ultimate stage, according to their beliefs, is that all Jews have to be killed or become Christians.

Where is this in Scripture?

The religious beliefs are not the whole problem, as Britian and the US have used religion to secure for themselves a degree of control over the region.

Support?

if this plant were only rock, we would not be having this discussion of earth.

Well, obviously, there's stuff on the rock. Still missing the "Hurting the biosphere is Christianity's fault" connection.

Quote by: Athena The evidence is Christians rely on the bible for an explanation of everything

Some Christians. Many don't. The majority of Christians, for example, believe in evolution rather than a literal transalation of Genesis.

Quote by: Athena and warn against those heathens and pagans, causing them to be prejudice of what is not in the bible, and people who are not Christian.

People are naturally afraid and repulsed by what is different. All people. Not just Christians.

Quote by: Athena All the religions divide and cause trouble, and Christianity is the worse at promoting superstition and ignorance. For example insisting we teach creationism in schools and not evolution.

It is improper to hold the majority responsible for the actions of the minority.

Quote by: Athena democracy, which is an ideology based on science and philosophy not religion

Which, of course, is why Jefferson refers to inalienable rights given to man by their Creator, right? Christianity is all about equalizing, you know. It's the whole "give to the poor" and "rich men can't get into heaven" thing.

Quote by: Athena There is not one wrong the Christians have not committed, so they should stop attacking Muslims for what they themselves have done, as they falsely believe their religion is superior.

At the moment, Christianity is superior. There was a time, in roughly the Middle Ages and the Crusades, when this was not so. But now...well, when was the last time you heard of a Christian suicide bomber? The vast majority of terrorism today is Islamic.