The Ten Commandments

[Fonceai]

I would challenge that the Ten Commandments are pointless.

God says, "Thou shalt not..." ten times (or 15, if you believe Mel Brooks) but never establishes a consequence?

Sounds like an empty threat. What is the consequence for not following the Ten Commandments?

And as such, why follow them?

Realize too that all Jesus really did in his preaching was elaborate on those Commandments. Everything he teaches is based on one of them through a modern interpretation (modern for the 1st century).

The Ten Commandments give the rules.

Jesus told what would happen if you followed the rules (Heaven).

But no prophetic message has come to tell us what happens if you don't follow them.

This then begs the following question:

What is there after death other than Heaven?

---

Personally, I believe the Ten Commandments were from divine inspiration.
I believe Jesus truly preached the word of God.

But that's it.

I don't believe the Bible at all.

That's why I think it begs the question above.

Follow the Ten Commandments, which Jesus elaborated on, and you go to Heaven. But what if you don't?

You could argue that if you do, you sit right there with Jesus. Sorta like backstage passes. But you still get to go to the concert. Following the Ten Commandments just gets you a better seat.

Thoughts?

[alexGERMAN]

No consequence? Why isnt it obvious that if you disobey one of these commandments God will do something really mean to you...after you die...or give you some terrible disease. At which point all the small-town minded people will say "surely the Lord hath smote him for his blasphemy"

Seriously, the ten commandments are great guidlines for day to day living, dont steal, dont murder etc. But really they are just common sence. Like if God in his omnipotence forgot to add murder to the list, do you think there would be any more murders today than there are already? How many people think before they kill someone "I better not do this, it says so in the ten commandments" Not many, if any.

The Ten Commandments exist because they needed to exist, Israel needed the "10 easy steps to living" so to speak when it was leaving Egypt and Mose...GOD! was more than happy to oblige.

[Fonceai]

Heh...

"The Ten Commandments: A.K.A. How to Be Nice For Dummies"

[ItsDarts]

Wow!!!! You believe in Jesus, but don't believe in the bible or what it teaches? Where is this rationalization coming from? If you actually READ the bible (Exodus and Deut. in particular) you'd see there are consequences for not obeying the 10C's. The one that sticks out in my mind is the one where the guy was picking up sticks around his camp on the sabbath. He was taken outside of the camp and stoned to death. I'm not great on remembering verse and chapter numbers so you will have to look it up yourself. There is another where if your children disrepect you, you can stone them too. Stoning was big back in the day. Christians get around this cruel and unusual punishment because Jesus payed the price for any sin you commit. Where before YOU payed the price (by death), Jesus now pays the price and offers forgiveness.

Christians also aren't required to follow laws that aren't moral in nature. i.e. the 10 C's are moral laws, but the consequences for breaking these moral laws falls under Civil Laws and there for are only meant for the hebrews of that time. I'm not sure why Jews don't follow some of these civil laws now a days, because I know there are some who work o the sabbath and some that commit adultry, but they aren't stoned to death.

You are correct that the 10C's are pretty much "How to be nice" for dummies but the basic priciples were around a lot longer than the 10C's have been around.

[Fonceai]

The rationalization came from not accepting one power hungry group's interpretation of something that is my business to figure out for myself.

Those punishments you describe weren't dictated by God. They were dictated by men who believed that the 10-C should be law.

Not that I disagree, I think all 10 are great.

But as far as divine punishment, it came from Man, not God.

Jesus never said anything about fire and sulfer.

And yeah, the principles were around for much longer, but not many people actually listened to them. Hell, even the people Moses saved were F'ing up.

[Heehoos]

It it my personal belief that the Ten Commandments were not so much laws for the sake of laws (as a test, where if you fail you go to hell) but laws to keep people safe and happy, to maintain full lives in cooperation with each other. Don't kill people. Don't steal. Don't hurt others. Don't sleep around. These are pretty elementary even to a society set upon reason and logic. If you live a good life and respect others, you will have a greater chance of living a full and happy life. The reprocussions? Being hated by others, putting your own life in jeopardy, etc.

[Castle]

Quote by: Fonceai God says, "Thou shalt not..." ten times (or 15, if you believe Mel Brooks) but never establishes a consequence? Sounds like an empty threat. What is the consequence for not following the Ten Commandments?

Your conclusion (that "The Ten Commandments are pointless") does not follow from your argument. Even if the Bible is false (regarding God, Jesus, the afterlife, etc.), the Ten Commandments still form the backbone of morality for a good many people and even nations. They're hardly pointless; indeed, very few things have had such an impact on the world.

Quote by: Fonceai And as such, why follow them?

Because doing good is its own reward?:) No, seriously, the same reason people everyone else follows moral codes.

Quote by: Fonceai But no prophetic message has come to tell us what happens if you don't follow them.

Uh...Hell?

[Fonceai]

From a religious perspective, the 10-C are pointless. They aren't religious. They are regular old ethics and morality.

Quote by: Castle Because doing good is its own reward?

This isn't about reward, it's about consequence.

Why shouldn't I not follow them?

Quote by: Castle Uh...Hell?

I believe Moses got the 10-C from God.

I believe Jesus spoke about how to live the 10-C, and Jesus was divine.

But what divine source speaks about what happens if you don't follow them?

[Castle]

Quote by: Fonceai From a religious perspective, the 10-C are pointless. They aren't religious. They are regular old ethics and morality.

Ah, sorry. OK.

Quote by: Fonceai But what divine source speaks about what happens if you don't follow them?

Quote by: Matthew-25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Quote by: Romans 2 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking [1] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

[Fonceai]

Neither of those is "divine" in the sense that the 10-C are divine. None of those are related as transcription of the word of God.

That's why I don't value Christianity very highly. The majority of the sects of it devalue the words of its namesake.

[Castle]

Quote by: Fonceai Neither of those is "divine" in the sense that the 10-C are divine. None of those are related as transcription of the word of God.

Close enough:

Quote by: 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

[Fonceai]

Close enough... just not close enough for me.

Or to put it another way, it's not quite equal, nor infinitesimally close.

<grins>

[Castle]

Just wondering: How does the fact that something is claimed to be a direct transcription of God's word make it more reliable (or "divine", or whatever)?

[alexGERMAN]

Quote by: Castle the Ten Commandments still form the backbone of morality for a good many people and even nations. They're hardly pointless; indeed, very few things have had such an impact on the world.

Impact? My friend you make it sound like the invention of the wheel. If the scratch a bullet makes on the side of a Tank can be called an impact, and an asteroid hitting the earth can be alo called an impact than yes, it made an impact.

Really, the 10C have never really changed anyone, they are obvious principles that everyone pretty much understood before and after there creation. The only time where it seems absolute chaos ruled was in the time of Noah, where he was the only good man alive and everyone one else had no problem raping/stealing/ murdering. but if you go further back in the bible (a few chapters) you find the story of the tower of babel. Where all man was united and no strife existed between man and then GOD! lemme say it again GODDD! got scared (the bible states that he noticed that 'united' man could do anything and eventually might just reach heaven (even though they wouldnt do it with the tower)) So he caused divisions among men, and man started waring amongst themselves. So it seems the answer to uniting man is found no where else but in the bible. If we could somehow re-unite people against something (duh) :rolleyes: (God perhaps?) Then people would no longer seek to harm one another

The logic i give here has flaws, but basically accurate

[Fonceai]

Quote by: Castle Just wondering: How does the fact that something is claimed to be a direct transcription of God's word make it more reliable (or "divine", or whatever)?

It's a personal preference. Certain stories speak to me in different ways. My personal evaluations lead me to believe that Moses and Jesus spoke for God and the words of God cannot be corrupted.

All the rest are, at best, speaking for someone who spoke for God. Gospels according to someone else. The word of God can't be corrupted, but Jesus and Moses were men, and their words could be twisted.

[gallo]

Quote by: ItsDarts Wow!!!! You believe in Jesus, but don't believe in the bible or what it teaches?

I'm not sure to whom you are responding. In my view, it would depend on what you mean by "believe in the bible." Of course, what it teaches is a bit contradictory - kill/love and the like. As for Jesus, there actually isn't any historical support that he existed.

Quote by: ItsDarts Where is this rationalization coming from?

From rational thinking.

Quote by: ItsDarts If you actually READ the bible (Exodus and Deut. in particular) you'd see there are consequences for not obeying the 10C's.

Right. Kill them! And this is an example of the loving god of christianity.

Quote by: ItsDarts The one that sticks out in my mind is the one where the guy was picking up sticks around his camp on the sabbath. He was taken outside of the camp and stoned to death.

An example of the violence that results from following the teaching of the Bible. So I am forbidden to cook my meal on the sabbath? Yet another example of the loving god of the christians.

Quote by: ItsDarts I'm not great on remembering verse and chapter numbers so you will have to look it up yourself.

I'm sure you're not. It is enough to condemn others on little understood verses from scripture.

Quote by: ItsDarts There is another where if your children disrepect you, you can stone them too. Stoning was big back in the day.

Right. Kill them. We can just have more. Our loving god demands it. Of course, you're going to have a tough time explaining to the DA.

Quote by: ItsDarts Christians get around this cruel and unusual punishment because Jesus payed the price for any sin you commit. Where before YOU payed the price (by death), Jesus now pays the price and offers forgiveness.

So you are saying that the old testament and its laws are meaningless and need not be given any heed because of Jesus? They are something that christians try to "get around."

Quote by: ItsDarts Christians also aren't required to follow laws that aren't moral in nature. i.e. the 10 C's are moral laws, but the consequences for breaking these moral laws falls under Civil Laws and there for are only meant for the hebrews of that time. I'm not sure why Jews don't follow some of these civil laws now a days, because I know there are some who work o the sabbath and some that commit adultry, but they aren't stoned to death.

You're serious? Have you ever heard of laws against murder? So murder is OK with you because it is biblical?

Quote by: ItsDarts You are correct that the 10C's are pretty much "How to be nice" for dummies but the basic priciples were around a lot longer than the 10C's have been around.

Not even that. My bet is that you don't even know the 10 Commandments as the Bible states them. At least I hope you don't seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

Cite the book, chapter and verse of the 10 commandments. Be aware that the Bible specifically mentions the 10 commandments, and if your cite doesn't include that, then you aren't citing the 10 commandments.

[Castle]

Quote by: Fonceai All the rest are, at best, speaking for someone who spoke for God. Gospels according to someone else. The word of God can't be corrupted, but Jesus and Moses were men, and their words could be twisted.

Are you honestly suggesting that whenever anyone claims to have been spoken to by a deity, they must be correct, because "The word of God can't be corrupted"?

Quote by: alexGERMAN Really, the 10C have never really changed anyone, they are obvious principles that everyone pretty much understood before and after there creation.

Perhaps. Perhaps not (If everyone understands "Do not steal", please explain war to me". And many today think nothing of blasphemy, which is prohibited by the 10 Commandments. Etc.) But what cannot be denied is that Christianity is the system of morality for millions in the world today, and that the 10 Commandments are an integral part of that moral system.

[Fonceai]

In my personal, unprovable and only true for me personally opinion, yes.

[Castle]

Quote by: Fonceai In my personal, unprovable and only true for me personally opinion, yes.

How would you resolve contradictory "A deity said this to me" claims?

[Fonceai]

Again...

This is my personal belief.

Anything I give to resolve or prove anything has no basis in universal fact, so why bother?