Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Sodfather · May 12, 2004, 04:22 pm

Do any of you have a unique view on life's meaning?

I view it as a contest to accomplish things which will keep your name alive post mortem, and ultimately to do such great things that your name becomes immortal. This meaning of life can be applied to many degrees, whether it be the repeating of a name like Caesar millenia after his death, or just one of your neighbors discussing how nice you were at their dinner table a few months after your death.

I also lean towards judging a live's value by how memorable their acheivements were, for better or for worse. For example, I view Ghandi and Hitler as close to par in greatness of lives. One made the world better, the other, much worse, yet the power which they used their lives to wield was quite comparable. The meaning of both lives is tremendous.

Debate that view and whether it's (il)logical, and please share your own unorthodox views.

PatrickHenry · May 12, 2004, 04:56 pm

When you're dead, how does having people say your name help or hurt ya? The meaning of life is: NOW.

Sodfather · May 12, 2004, 08:23 pm

Well, I believe there is some sort of afterlife, so you'd be able to bask in your success after death. If this wasn't true, think of how many sad stories of poets and novelists and artists who only became popular posthumously.

Autophage · May 12, 2004, 09:33 pm

I believe that consciousness created the universe - it's the sum of all the consciousnesses out there. No meaning of life but for the fact that if it weren't for life the universe wouldn't exist, and the universe exists.

Suburbanite · May 12, 2004, 09:35 pm

I love this question. To me, meaning comes from our language. In our language we give things a meaning, a purpose, a direction, a description at the very least. So of course once we verbalize life, we have to find its meaning. But language is social, not universal, and as such meaning doesn't exist in anything. Things are.

moondusk · May 13, 2004, 09:28 am

I think the meaning to life comes from the things that we do. The goodness of the actions to self or to others possess the meaning. Even being unaware if one is doing good deeds the outcome would reveal the meanings. So ultimately if we are righteous in actions we are living a meaningful life.

Sodfather · May 13, 2004, 05:53 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moondusk,
The goodness of the actions to self or to others possess the meaning.

What about the Adolf point which I made? Life's meaning has nothing to do with goodness--the meaning of Hitler's malignant life casts an enormous shadow over innumerable good-doers before his time.

Burb,

If language is so powerful, shouldn't you be using it? Instead of saying, "Things are," why don't you slap a more descriptive meaning to it?

Occam · May 13, 2004, 07:16 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by moondusk,
I think the meaning to life comes from the things that we do. The goodness of the actions to self or to others possess the meaning. Even being unaware if one is doing good deeds the outcome would reveal the meanings. So ultimately if we are righteous in actions we are living a meaningful life.

I believe moondusk stated it very well, however s/he did focus on the positive. To make a more general statement - There is no intrinsic meaning; we build the meaning of our lives by our actions, good and bad.

A Hitler or murderer or unethical company executive build negative meanings.

My hope is that when I die I will have given more happiness, improved the lives of more people and helped the world, more than I've hurt or damaged anyone or anything. If my consequences of my actions persist after my death, so much the better, but when my body dies so does my brain and programming. There is nothing left but those consequences.

Occam

moondusk · May 14, 2004, 05:11 am

Yes Occam you are right. If you and others can be happy about what you have done to yourself and to others, knowing that it has uplifted the lives of yours and others, you have a meaningful life.

If you believe in after life or not; if you can be happy about the life you have lived when you die, I think it's an obvious measure for the meaning to life.

But I'd like to ask can a 'negative meaning' be considered as 'a meaning to life'? For me it's destructive, which I'd not consider as 'a meaning to life'. Every human has good and bad side, but I believe meaning to life comes by driving our lives to have more good for the betterment of all.

So considering Ghandhi and Hitler- I'd say Ghandhi had a great meaning to life, but for me Hitler didn't because considering the good and bad, bad weighs more.

Sodfather · May 14, 2004, 07:49 pm

It seems utterly obtuse to me that you say that, moondusk. Hitler wiped millions of Jews--no, human beings-- off the face of the Earth, forever destroyng what those millions of people may have accomplished in their lives. He brought about traumatization of his soliders, from which many of whom I'm sure never recovered. This does not constitute meaning? Hitler affected nothing? I strongly doubt it.

Suburbanite · May 14, 2004, 11:40 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sodfather,

Burb,

If language is so powerful, shouldn't you be using it? Instead of saying, "Things are," why don't you slap a more descriptive meaning to it?

Why would I?

LogicaLunatic · May 15, 2004, 01:56 am

The meaning of life...

I think there is a meaning of life. I also think this meaning begins in the same place for each of us.

For a long time I had tried to think of a single thing that ALL humans have in common no matter what their religion, race, gender, up-bringing or culture is.

Quick List...
1) Everybody takes pisses and shits.
2) Everybody eats and requires water.
3) Everybody breaths.
4) Everybody sleeps.

These four things are required to what? To simply stay alive. Staying alive is a wonderful thing but the question, when put this way is...

Why do we strive to stay alive? Why do we eat? We get hungry. Why do we drink? We get thirsty. Why do we sleep? We get tired. Why do we take big healthy shi... You get the picture.

We get urges to do all of these things but all they do is sustain life. Additionally, none of the urges listed above can be denied for very long without serious concequences. Perhaps there is some other urge that does NOT merely lead to sustaining life and CAN be denied. Can you think of any?

I can. Every human, aside from the urges listed above, gets at least one more. The urge to have sex. Now, does this urge simply sustain or maintain life? Will you die if you don't have sex? Sometimes it feels that way but no, you won't die if you deny sexual urges. Since sex leads to the creation of NEW life, I think this new life is the meaning.

I exist to create a child and make sure that child is able to sustain his/her own life until he/she can produce new life.

Take a look at the meaning of my life...

http://www.logicalunatic.com/littleb.asp

LogicaLunatic

Impenitent · May 15, 2004, 09:52 am

Quote:

Originally posted by LogicaLunatic,
The meaning of life...

Quick List...
1) Everybody takes pisses and shits.

this is all well and good but it raises two very important questions...

1) To where are we taking them?
2) How are they being carried?

LogicaLunatic · May 15, 2004, 12:29 pm

Good Point!

Sodfather · May 15, 2004, 02:00 pm

What about a sterile couple who do not have the credentials to adopt a child? Are their lives then rendered meaningless?

LogicaLunatic · May 15, 2004, 03:35 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sodfather,
What about a sterile couple who do not have the credentials to adopt a child? Are their lives then rendered meaningless?

What about people that don't want kids? Are their lives meaningless?

Of course not.

Sodfather · May 15, 2004, 03:57 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by LogicalLunatic,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LogicalLunatic,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What about people that don't want kids? Are their lives meaningless?

Of course not[/b]

I love your conviction, as if my question was inappropriate. Why don't you tell that to your own words?
<!--QuoteBegin-LogicalLunatic,
Since sex leads to the creation of NEW life, I think this new life is the meaning.

I exist to create a child and make sure that child is able to sustain his/her own life until he/she can produce new life.[/quote]
Your philosophy by default renders the lives of people who can't create new life without a meaning. Try not to totally negate your own philosophy next time. ;)

Sodfather · May 15, 2004, 10:50 pm

Back to my "philospohy"--I found something quite ironic the night after I had posted this article. I was studying for a Latin exam on the Aeneid and was doing some last-minute reviewing when I came across this:

[color=red]Stat sua cuique dies, breve et inreparabile tempus
omnibus est vitae: sed famam extendere factis,
hoc virtutis opus.

Aeneid, Book X Lines 467-469
[/color]

It's translated: "And to each stands his own day, brief and irretrievable is the time of life for all: but to extend [one's] fame by deeds, this [is] the task of courage."

There you have it! Vergil himself supported my philosophy!

moondusk · May 16, 2004, 08:45 am

Sodfather, you misunderstood me. I did not mean that everything Hitler did was bad. What I meant was 'the meaning of life' comes by doing more good.

Sodfather · May 16, 2004, 03:32 pm

Well, pretty much everything Hitler did was bad; I wouldn't have a problem even if you did say that.

Back to your philosophy...As much as you'd like to deny it, a life of producing kids is only a meaningful life if they go on to do something meaningful. Some poor sixth-grade-education trucker down in Alabama could have fourteen illegitimate children, all with IQ's barely above legal retardation, but his life and those of his children are virtually worthless and thus his has no meaning. If he and his children were wiped off the face of the Earth, no one would notice or even remember their existence in five years.

May 12, 2004, 04:56 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	When you're dead, how does having people say your name help or hurt ya? The meaning of life is: NOW. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

May 13, 2004, 09:28 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
moondusk Molten Ash Posts: 40	I think the meaning to life comes from the things that we do. The goodness of the actions to self or to others possess the meaning. Even being unaware if one is doing good deeds the outcome would reveal the meanings. So ultimately if we are righteous in actions we are living a meaningful life. www.moondusk.com

May 14, 2004, 05:11 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
moondusk Molten Ash Posts: 40	Yes Occam you are right. If you and others can be happy about what you have done to yourself and to others, knowing that it has uplifted the lives of yours and others, you have a meaningful life. If you believe in after life or not; if you can be happy about the life you have lived when you die, I think it's an obvious measure for the meaning to life. But I'd like to ask can a 'negative meaning' be considered as 'a meaning to life'? For me it's destructive, which I'd not consider as 'a meaning to life'. Every human has good and bad side, but I believe meaning to life comes by driving our lives to have more good for the betterment of all. So considering Ghandhi and Hitler- I'd say Ghandhi had a great meaning to life, but for me Hitler didn't because considering the good and bad, bad weighs more. www.moondusk.com

May 15, 2004, 01:56 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
LogicaLunatic Hrm... Location: MN Posts: 445	The meaning of life... I think there is a meaning of life. I also think this meaning begins in the same place for each of us. For a long time I had tried to think of a single thing that ALL humans have in common no matter what their religion, race, gender, up-bringing or culture is. Quick List... 1) Everybody takes pisses and shits. 2) Everybody eats and requires water. 3) Everybody breaths. 4) Everybody sleeps. These four things are required to what? To simply stay alive. Staying alive is a wonderful thing but the question, when put this way is... Why do we strive to stay alive? Why do we eat? We get hungry. Why do we drink? We get thirsty. Why do we sleep? We get tired. Why do we take big healthy shi... You get the picture. We get urges to do all of these things but all they do is sustain life. Additionally, none of the urges listed above can be denied for very long without serious concequences. Perhaps there is some other urge that does NOT merely lead to sustaining life and CAN be denied. Can you think of any? I can. Every human, aside from the urges listed above, gets at least one more. The urge to have sex. Now, does this urge simply sustain or maintain life? Will you die if you don't have sex? Sometimes it feels that way but no, you won't die if you deny sexual urges. Since sex leads to the creation of NEW life, I think this new life is the meaning. I exist to create a child and make sure that child is able to sustain his/her own life until he/she can produce new life. Take a look at the meaning of my life... http://www.logicalunatic.com/littleb.asp LogicaLunatic "Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive." -- Wallace Irwin

May 15, 2004, 12:29 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
LogicaLunatic Hrm... Location: MN Posts: 445	Good Point! "Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive." -- Wallace Irwin

May 12, 2004, 04:22 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	Do any of you have a unique view on life's meaning? I view it as a contest to accomplish things which will keep your name alive post mortem, and ultimately to do such great things that your name becomes immortal. This meaning of life can be applied to many degrees, whether it be the repeating of a name like Caesar millenia after his death, or just one of your neighbors discussing how nice you were at their dinner table a few months after your death. I also lean towards judging a live's value by how memorable their acheivements were, for better or for worse. For example, I view Ghandi and Hitler as close to par in greatness of lives. One made the world better, the other, much worse, yet the power which they used their lives to wield was quite comparable. The meaning of both lives is tremendous. Debate that view and whether it's (il)logical, and please share your own unorthodox views.

May 12, 2004, 08:23 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	Well, I believe there is some sort of afterlife, so you'd be able to bask in your success after death. If this wasn't true, think of how many sad stories of poets and novelists and artists who only became popular posthumously.

May 12, 2004, 09:33 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Autophage Molten Ash Location: Washington, DC-ish Posts: 103	I believe that consciousness created the universe - it's the sum of all the consciousnesses out there. No meaning of life but for the fact that if it weren't for life the universe wouldn't exist, and the universe exists.

May 12, 2004, 09:35 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	I love this question. To me, meaning comes from our language. In our language we give things a meaning, a purpose, a direction, a description at the very least. So of course once we verbalize life, we have to find its meaning. But language is social, not universal, and as such meaning doesn't exist in anything. Things are.

May 14, 2004, 07:49 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	It seems utterly obtuse to me that you say that, moondusk. Hitler wiped millions of Jews--no, human beings-- off the face of the Earth, forever destroyng what those millions of people may have accomplished in their lives. He brought about traumatization of his soliders, from which many of whom I'm sure never recovered. This does not constitute meaning? Hitler affected nothing? I strongly doubt it.

May 15, 2004, 02:00 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	What about a sterile couple who do not have the credentials to adopt a child? Are their lives then rendered meaningless?

May 15, 2004, 10:50 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	Back to my "philospohy"--I found something quite ironic the night after I had posted this article. I was studying for a Latin exam on the Aeneid and was doing some last-minute reviewing when I came across this: [color=red]Stat sua cuique dies, breve et inreparabile tempus omnibus est vitae: sed famam extendere factis, hoc virtutis opus. Aeneid, Book X Lines 467-469 [/color] It's translated: "And to each stands his own day, brief and irretrievable is the time of life for all: but to extend [one's] fame by deeds, this [is] the task of courage." There you have it! Vergil himself supported my philosophy!

May 16, 2004, 08:45 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
moondusk Molten Ash Posts: 40	Sodfather, you misunderstood me. I did not mean that everything Hitler did was bad. What I meant was 'the meaning of life' comes by doing more good. www.moondusk.com

May 16, 2004, 03:32 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	Well, pretty much everything Hitler did was bad; I wouldn't have a problem even if you did say that. Back to your philosophy...As much as you'd like to deny it, a life of producing kids is only a meaningful life if they go on to do something meaningful. Some poor sixth-grade-education trucker down in Alabama could have fourteen illegitimate children, all with IQ's barely above legal retardation, but his life and those of his children are virtually worthless and thus his has no meaning. If he and his children were wiped off the face of the Earth, no one would notice or even remember their existence in five years.