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Poseidon · Nov 18, 2006, 06:39 pm

hi,
ok. what would you choose, live in ignorance and being happy because you dont know what really is hapening (whatever it is) or knowledge wich could be emotionaly & mentaly harlmull. one example: billy id feeling bad, their parents take him to the doctor and they discover he has terminal cancer (and their is nothing do do about it now) but billy dosent know, their parents decide to hide it from him. billy lives his last days happy by extra care by his parents, in a lapse of two days he colapses and dies. (i know cancer can't nesesarely act this way) . bob is feeling bad his parents take him to the doctor, their dicover he has terminal cancer, he lives his last days with the special attention of his parents, he stays inside his room crying and depressed without any consolation. in a week long period he colapses and dies. feel free to make your own examples i just chose this because i though it was apropiate. so ignorance and happyness or Knowledge and umm un-happyness

another day · Nov 18, 2006, 06:45 pm

In this situation i'd rather not know. There is no use knowing. On the other hand there are many other situations where knowledge and unhappyness is best, such as not believing in god. But in this case there is no great truth which is being missed out on, he just doesn't know he's going to die so he can enjoy his last days instead of worrying.

Athena · Nov 18, 2006, 11:01 pm

It might be nice to be ignorant and happy, compared to knowledgeable. Knowledge is not enlightenment. Enlightenment involves becoming egoless.
One can be very knowledgeable and not enlightened.

CoffeeSaint · Nov 19, 2006, 10:56 am

I'll always take knowledge over ignorance. You can't move forward and reach enlightenment without knowledge, and the happiness of ignorance is a false happiness; in the case of Billy, his happiness is propped up only by the facade his parents create, and I can't imagine how much it would tear them apart to have to smile and say, "That's a great idea, honey," when little Billy talks about what he's going to be when he grows up. Little Billy should be permitted to deal with his life in the best possible way, and that way is not living a lie.

I have to add the caveat that I would not expect a small child to deal with his own mortality in a mature and positive way, but I think it depends on the child, and I think we sell our children far too short whenever we assume they can't handle the truth. There are certainly cases where Billy would not be capable of dealing with his condition, but I think most people would be able to, and thus they should be allowed to. For myself, I'd always rather know.

Mr. Blue Sky · Nov 19, 2006, 04:53 pm

Enlightenment. For some reason it's always been a reaction of mine during injections to look at the needle instead of away. I feel more comfortable when I know something's coming. To not have full knowledge or your situation would rob you of the tools to deal with it properly.

Nathan Struth · Nov 20, 2006, 12:17 pm

For this situation I'd want Billy to be happy. In my opinion ignorance is bliss on a small scale, but ignorance is not bliss on a large scale.

Take this example: John doesn't know that nuclear weapons cause fallotu and radiation cancer.

John's entire research association that makes nuclear weapons doesn't know they cause cancer. They test one right next to NYC, the fallout kills half of its population.

Any disagreements or bad example perhaps?

Osborn F Enready · Nov 20, 2006, 01:32 pm

My opinion, it is always best to know all the facts to the best of your ability.
It always behooves one to be more informed, or as informed as possible on any given situation, choice or folly that may present itself.

There are exceptions, and I am sure each person draws their line individually different. In your example, there is no such thing as "win-win", which information usually provides from most situations. In that case, the child, if too young to grasp the reality of the situation, I would see no reason to put that weight on them when they should be spending every moment enjoying what life I could provide for as long as possible. But, that is my individual perogative as a parent of a young child who is under my charge until they gain full access to their rights.

A right to information is not necessarily applied to children. That is part of the parents job to decide.

D_Chilli · Nov 21, 2006, 01:58 pm

It is hard to answer this question without being in the situation. It also does vary from child to adult, and from situation to situation.

When it comes to knowing or not knowing that death is upon me, it could go either way.

Ignorance would allow me to live my last days without worry or depression, which I imagine would be hard to avoid these feelings while knowing that I am dying.

Knowing, on the other hand, would allow me to find time to experience all the things that I have dreamed of experiencing that I would normally put off. I would also be able to tell the people I care about all the things that I would rather them hear than let them live on wondering. I know that I should live life like this anyway because no one knows what is around the corner, but it is hard to do when I am making a life for myself and constantly thinking that I have years to enjoy my life.

I guess I would have to say that I don't think I could be 100% sure, or anyone else could either, unless I am in the situation.

Nov 18, 2006, 06:39 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Poseidon Migthy Wave Posts: 30	living in ignorance or enligthment hi, ok. what would you choose, live in ignorance and being happy because you dont know what really is hapening (whatever it is) or knowledge wich could be emotionaly & mentaly harlmull. one example: billy id feeling bad, their parents take him to the doctor and they discover he has terminal cancer (and their is nothing do do about it now) but billy dosent know, their parents decide to hide it from him. billy lives his last days happy by extra care by his parents, in a lapse of two days he colapses and dies. (i know cancer can't nesesarely act this way) . bob is feeling bad his parents take him to the doctor, their dicover he has terminal cancer, he lives his last days with the special attention of his parents, he stays inside his room crying and depressed without any consolation. in a week long period he colapses and dies. feel free to make your own examples i just chose this because i though it was apropiate. so ignorance and happyness or Knowledge and umm un-happyness *You may call me a Noob since I am young, my bocabulary is still growing, please bare with me*

Nov 19, 2006, 10:56 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
CoffeeSaint Moral Turnip Location: Oregon, US Posts: 2,283	I'll always take knowledge over ignorance. You can't move forward and reach enlightenment without knowledge, and the happiness of ignorance is a false happiness; in the case of Billy, his happiness is propped up only by the facade his parents create, and I can't imagine how much it would tear them apart to have to smile and say, "That's a great idea, honey," when little Billy talks about what he's going to be when he grows up. Little Billy should be permitted to deal with his life in the best possible way, and that way is not living a lie. I have to add the caveat that I would not expect a small child to deal with his own mortality in a mature and positive way, but I think it depends on the child, and I think we sell our children far too short whenever we assume they can't handle the truth. There are certainly cases where Billy would not be capable of dealing with his condition, but I think most people would be able to, and thus they should be allowed to. For myself, I'd always rather know. "Would you like some pie, Dr. Stark?" "Science is my pie. Curiosity, my sweet tooth. Knowledge is my candy."

Nov 19, 2006, 04:53 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Mr. Blue Sky Molten Ash Posts: 73	Enlightenment. For some reason it's always been a reaction of mine during injections to look at the needle instead of away. I feel more comfortable when I know something's coming. To not have full knowledge or your situation would rob you of the tools to deal with it properly. Alas! the forbidden fruits were eaten, And thereby the warm life of reason congealed. A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam, Like as the Dragon's tail dulls the brightness of the moon.

Nov 20, 2006, 12:17 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Nathan Struth don't care Location: NY Posts: 267	For this situation I'd want Billy to be happy. In my opinion ignorance is bliss on a small scale, but ignorance is not bliss on a large scale. Take this example: John doesn't know that nuclear weapons cause fallotu and radiation cancer. John's entire research association that makes nuclear weapons doesn't know they cause cancer. They test one right next to NYC, the fallout kills half of its population. Any disagreements or bad example perhaps? I'm just a fool caught in the rat race of life (Nathan Struth) please help me solve world hunger, It's hard to do it alone.

Nov 20, 2006, 01:32 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	My opinion, it is always best to know all the facts to the best of your ability. It always behooves one to be more informed, or as informed as possible on any given situation, choice or folly that may present itself. There are exceptions, and I am sure each person draws their line individually different. In your example, there is no such thing as "win-win", which information usually provides from most situations. In that case, the child, if too young to grasp the reality of the situation, I would see no reason to put that weight on them when they should be spending every moment enjoying what life I could provide for as long as possible. But, that is my individual perogative as a parent of a young child who is under my charge until they gain full access to their rights. A right to information is not necessarily applied to children. That is part of the parents job to decide. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Nov 18, 2006, 06:45 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
another day slipping sand Posts: 1,915	In this situation i'd rather not know. There is no use knowing. On the other hand there are many other situations where knowledge and unhappyness is best, such as not believing in god. But in this case there is no great truth which is being missed out on, he just doesn't know he's going to die so he can enjoy his last days instead of worrying.

Nov 18, 2006, 11:01 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Athena Volcanic Erupter Location: Oregon Posts: 5,172	It might be nice to be ignorant and happy, compared to knowledgeable. Knowledge is not enlightenment. Enlightenment involves becoming egoless. One can be very knowledgeable and not enlightened.

Nov 21, 2006, 01:58 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
D_Chilli Debate Newby Location: Oregon Posts: 5	It is hard to answer this question without being in the situation. It also does vary from child to adult, and from situation to situation. When it comes to knowing or not knowing that death is upon me, it could go either way. Ignorance would allow me to live my last days without worry or depression, which I imagine would be hard to avoid these feelings while knowing that I am dying. Knowing, on the other hand, would allow me to find time to experience all the things that I have dreamed of experiencing that I would normally put off. I would also be able to tell the people I care about all the things that I would rather them hear than let them live on wondering. I know that I should live life like this anyway because no one knows what is around the corner, but it is hard to do when I am making a life for myself and constantly thinking that I have years to enjoy my life. I guess I would have to say that I don't think I could be 100% sure, or anyone else could either, unless I am in the situation.