Would you denounce your faith or beliefs to save a life?

[HowDoYouKnow?]

Hi all Im new here, but I figured I would start out with a post...hopefully I get some feedback.

Do Christians seriously put "god" before their loved ones? I always hear or see this... God (first and foremost), then my husband and children! I only ask out of curiosity, bc it doesn't make sense to me and I'm hoping someone can explain it from their viewpoint.

Please indulge me in playing along.
Theoretical Example...If someone put a gun to your head and told you to denounce Jesus as your God, would you? Say that gun was pointed at your child? Would you then?

I've seen on other religion and philosophy forums...Christians state they would NOT verbally denounce "god" to save their child's life or their own"???? Mabey its that I take an agnostic stance in my religious beliefs, but I could NEVER put anything or anyone before my own child. I am not willing to "sacrifice" my child for a "theoretical entity" and even if I bought into Christianity, I could never put anyone "god" included before my own "innocent" child. What in your belief system justifies this and why does it seem that many, if not most Christians do put "god" before people (at least as a general rule), if this is what you believe? I understand, that I am not one to answer to in your beliefs, but if someone can honestly say that they would not denounce Christ to save their child's life, does that not make them a murderer? Also, if you would not denounce "god" to save your OWN life would you be in essence committing suicide?

Also, what would others with different beliefs theoretically do? (Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, etc) Would you denounce your "beliefs" or "non-beliefs" and lie to protect your child or yourself? I am curious to see how other religions believe they would respond to this situation if it ever occurred, as well.

I would love some insight on what you think you would do, and if you believe you would NOT denounce your beliefs, why? If you Would, why? Any thoughts?

[shield772]

No I would not, I love my children and would do or say anything else to save their lives but that I would never do.

[HowDoYouKnow?]

Thank you very much for such a quick response. I understand that no matter what you love your children, I dont think that is up for debate. I am still interested to know why though? What in your belief system justifies this? Why do you put god before people? Not trying to sound cynical, just attempting to understand your motivations and/or reasoning. I'm not looking for "because the bible says so", I'm looking for your own personal reasons, unless your reason is BC the bible says so. Also, do you think this could be interpreted as contributing to the murder of said child? Why or why not? I know that doesn't sound kind, but religion is not always kind, and I'm trying to get a perspective from your logical standpoint. I am not here to judge, just to attempt to understand.

[Lotharia]

I'd be willing to SAY anything to save my child. You wouldn't be willing to tell a lie to save the life of your child?

[HowDoYouKnow?]

Thank you Lotharia for your answer.

Also, sorry I didnt state this sooner, but I would appreciate anyone who posts to state their religious beliefs as well (christian, athiest, agnostic, etc), As I am attempting to see how much it varies in each belief system, especially christianity.

[shield772]

I am a non-denominational christian, I believe that if you deny god to men your soul is lost forever and I would want my children to know that they will see me again in heaven. It is a lot more than just a lie.

[Lotharia]

Quote by: HowDoYouKnow? Thank you Lotharia for your answer. Also, sorry I didnt state this sooner, but I would appreciate anyone who posts to state their religious beliefs as well (christian, athiest, agnostic, etc), As I am attempting to see how much it varies in each belief system, especially christianity.

You can put me down as atheist.

[HowDoYouKnow?]

See thats were I get confused though. If you don't believe the lie what does it matter to "god", you're not trying to sway the masses against him. Your not denouncing him in your heart. You're practicing your faith by denouncing god superficially to save lives, and suffering. I doubt "god" would screw people on technicalities for the "fun"of it (assuming there is a god for sake of argument).

I understand that you have faith. Heres the thing that I cannot grasp, (once again mabey because I believe based on logic rather than absolute faith) but if there was even the smallest chance in the world you could be wrong, have you not contributed your childs complete end? Why take a chance? There is a difference between faith and blind faith.

I have seen arguments stated that this is a selfless act, but is it really? Have you not in essence allowed your said child to be put to death for your OWN salvation.

[phoenix_fire]

First, let me say that it would be true depravity for someone to put another in that situation. Physically, the guy might have a gun to your kid's head, but spiritually, the gun is to your own head. If I ever have children, I would hope that they would understand that. Personally, I myself would rather die than have my parents damn themselves to try to save me. I would hope that my children would feel the same. Don't get me wrong: it would tear me to pieces to have to do that. But I know that I would see them again.

[Chimowowo]

But is it damning to lie about not believing. If you believe in God, but say you don't, are you really damned forever? If so, that's not a very loving and forgiving God. If you are damned, but can be forgiven, then how long does it take. Is it only when you tell the lie, but the moment it's over, it's over? If so why not longer? Why is the lie so much more powerful than the belief? If you have to ask forgiveness, why? Why ask forgiveness for saving the lives of others, when you never had to change your belief? Again, what is the power of those words, when compared to the power of your belief?

[HowDoYouKnow?]

Quote by: Chimowowo But is it damning to lie about not believing. If you believe in God, but say you don't, are you really damned forever? If so, that's not a very loving and forgiving God. If you are damned, but can be forgiven, then how long does it take. Is it only when you tell the lie, but the moment it's over, it's over? If so why not longer? Why is the lie so much more powerful than the belief? If you have to ask forgiveness, why? Why ask forgiveness for saving the lives of others, when you never had to change your belief? Again, what is the power of those words, when compared to the power of your belief?

Exactly my point. Why is the lie so much more powerful than the belief? Is a sin not a sin equally in the eyes of your lord? Why can a "sinner" who touches a women with 7 days of menstration still go to heaven, but not a women who is supericially lying to save her children. If "god" is all knowing, does he not KNOW that you lied to save your children from death, and not because it what is in your heart? Im attempting to stay away from the point of choosing your god over your children. Im wanting more to understand why logically a parent who believes in god. could not "just lie" and hope that "god" is a forgiving god. How do the people who have stated they would NOT lie about it, feel about my evaluation that with saving yourself from "damnation" in essence your "killing" your said child? Do you not see it this way? Do you honestly believe that your children will understand why you have doomed them in this life? And why do you believe that "god" would allow you to be "damned" over something that you've done to save this said life? I would love to ask why...If you do believe "he" would damn you, you continue to practice this religion. However I dont want this to be a debate over religious preferences or whos right and whos wrong, since we have NO WAY of knowing (at least in this life). Any answers or opinions are appreciated. Thanks all!

[Jack]

This is a situation similar to "would you take a bullet for someone else?". You really can't say until the situation arises. All else is speculation. No one is going to admit that they might possibly behave in a shameful or cowardly manner when put to the test, yet many do. It's impossible to predict an action in circumstances of life and death.

[HowDoYouKnow?]

Quote by: Isherwood This is a situation similar to "would you take a bullet for someone else?". You really can't say until the situation arises. All else is speculation. No one is going to admit that they might possibly behave in a shameful or cowardly manner when put to the test, yet many do. It's impossible to predict an action in circumstances of life and death.

I dont agree that this situation of choosing "god" over a child with a lie is the same, all though I see the point you attempt to make. All my opinion, but hear me out. If I'm jumping in the way of the bullet heading towards someone else, I have empirical proof that SOMEONE will be shot, someone WILL get hurt. If I superfically lie (albeit only a lie) in front of a god I believe in, but is not proven to exist to save my childs life, who is in FACT hurt at that point? The argument that god MAY damn me, is not a given. We dont know if there is a "god", which "god is correct, and for that matter what "god" believes or what "he" would do. I dont see many similarities there.

I agree that it could be considered speculation, considering that I could not say what I would do in certain situations. And I assume you are only stating that the people that say they wouldnt lie, could not say that indefinatley, until they are faced with a child being put in that situation. As a mother, I KNOW without a doubt, that I would never not jump in the way of a bullet going towards my son. I think thats part of being a mother, and without any thought, that WOULD be my reaction. Just as I would jump in the way of a car to push my son out of the way. The risks to me are not the same as the risks to my son, and is not inevitable that I would be harmed or harmed badly. I think even most Christian mothers would do the same. I dont think thats up for debate. All though I see your point that we dont know what we would do in most situations we have not experiences, and could very easily coward out of our intended idea. I have started this post because I hear so many Christians state that they would ALWAYS choose "god" first, and wanted to pose this question to see if they still believed that they would choose "god" first still, and the reasoning behind it in their eyes. Also to see if other people with different religious beliefs, believe they would do. Why not lie to save the life of someone you KNOW and have proof "exists". I guess it comes down to perception?

[G. Adams]

Any god that would not understand, nay, fully support your denying him in order to save someones life, especially that of your child, is entirely unworthy of worship.

[Chimowowo]

Quote by: Isherwood This is a situation similar to "would you take a bullet for someone else?". You really can't say until the situation arises. All else is speculation. No one is going to admit that they might possibly behave in a shameful or cowardly manner when put to the test, yet many do. It's impossible to predict an action in circumstances of life and death.

I don't disagree that it's hard to say for sure what will happen. But I think the point of the argument isn't the actual act. It's the fictional choice itself that is the question. Some people say they would rather let their own kids die, than lie about their faith. HowDoYouKnow brought a good question, that I would also like to know the answer to. Why is a lie about faith more damning than letting your kids die. I understand it's a hard question for some, most religious debate questions are. But I do think it's an important question that most religious people should ask themselves for their own understanding.

Which is more important to a person of the faith, always being honest with their faith, or human life, and why?

[shield772]

The only unforgivable sin IMEO is non-belief/denial of God, I would not be damning my child, I would be freeing them to be in a better place, because when they do start these executions of christians ( and they will) it will be the tribulation.

[Chimowowo]

Quote by: shield772 The only unforgivable sin IMEO is non-belief/denial of God, I would not be damning my child, I would be freeing them to be in a better place, because when they do start these executions of christians ( and they will) it will be the tribulation.

So you think every crime ever commited can be forgiven except to deny god, even if you don't believe it. So if a parent tells a child that God exists in Heaven and the child says no, he is damned forever? If at anytime in your life you have ever thought God doesn't exist you burn in hell? If you murder 50 kids though, and ask for forgiveness, you are okay?

What kind of just God is that?

The obvious answer and controdiction to your statement is that it isn't true. You can be forgiven for denying God. Otherwise anyone not born believing would be damned for ever. Lost people would never be able to get into hell, despite finding the right path again. Since Christianity teaches people can be saved, then we know that the statement to deny God is unforgivable is wrong.

So knowing people can be forgiven and saved after denying God, what makes it such that believing in God, but saying you don't to save the lives of children, is worse than saying you do believe in God and letting those children be killed?

If you still say because it's unforgivable, then I present my previous question to you, what kind of just and loving God is that, and why do you follow? Is it purely because you don't want to burn in hell?

[phoenix_fire]

That's not really accurate. People have doubts and tough times and God is lenient with that. But if you outright denounce Him to others, it's different. Jesus says:

"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. "

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. "--Matthew 10:26-28, 32-33

[shield772]

Yeah I was looking for that scripture but couldn't remember where it was, thanks phoenix

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Quote by: phoenix_fire "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. " "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. "--Matthew 10:26-28, 32-33

Jesus also said: "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of my brothers, you did for me." Matthew 25:40. and "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Matthew 25:45

Therefore in disowning your son before men, you have disowned Jesus and will be disowned before your father in heaven.