Suicide?

[luke virtual kh]

I haven't read the full thread , but has anyone mentioned the 'suicides' at Tiamenmen Square. Rather than being labelled lunatics, those people (or person) were seen as herioc freedom fighters.
And China has since changed it's economic policy.
All's for the best then imo if the link I've made is valid.
You see, humans have a common ability to suffer. We're so genetically similar, there's hardly and significant difference between you and I (biologically). If one's temporary self sacrificing suffering can create a billion degrees of happiness via economic influence, then that's like saving oneself from a near eterninty of relative suffering too. If theres a significant benifit to be gained, perhaps suicide can be morally justified.

[samsara15]

Quote by: Kuldeep To my mind age has no relation!!! Living beings love to live and live for ever. The circumstances might alter that deep rooted wish that too mommentarily. If some good alternative is provided in time, the moment of sucide commiting feeling would just pass off smoothly. Come on, just ask 110 year old man having no health or financial problem to die since he has already over lived. See what would be his answer!!!!:)

I have no desire to live forever. Our natural lifespan is enough. However, being reborn might be interesting.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Kuldeep To my mind age has no relation!!! Living beings love to live and live for ever. The circumstances might alter that deep rooted wish that too mommentarily. If some good alternative is provided in time, the moment of sucide commiting feeling would just pass off smoothly. Come on, just ask 110 year old man having no health or financial problem to die since he has already over lived. See what would be his answer!!!!:)

Have you ever had a father, or a father-in-law,... burned over 70 percent of his body, in his 70s, already having lost an arm... or 90 years old, on a vent, in the hospital for months on end... beg to die?

I have. I had to restrain myself from pulling the plug in the first case and my wife had to do this same just a few months ago. As a boy a "perfectly healthy" 102 year old woman I worked for told me she was ready to go and she wished she would... several times.

There are far worse things than being dead, especially once age starts using that scythe to slice away your ability to see, taste, smell, walk, talk...

[samsara15]

My Mom is 88, nearing 89. Yesterday she had a coughing fit and spit out a tooth - no pain, just spit out a tooth, roots and all. I'm not sure she still considers life such a blessing. She has lots of ailments, but her body just keeps on going. She doesn't enjoy food, and is barely mobile.

[Kuldeep]

@Samsara15 @ Ken Carman
Both of you are talking about physical and metal agony of person forcing a wish to cease living. If such agony is removed by some means the will to live would continue. Same thing I mentioned about 110 year old person that he if he is in sound health and with perfect situation around.

By living you two mean to continue live in existing body frame. But my meaning to living is the existance of inner self in any form with body or without body.

[samsara15]

If I could be computer simulated at age 18, financially secure with a great sex life and a healthy young body, I'd jump at the chance to do it! And I'd want to live forever.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Kuldeep @Samsara15 @ Ken Carman Both of you are talking about physical and metal agony of person forcing a wish to cease living. If such agony is removed by some means the will to live would continue. Same thing I mentioned about 110 year old person that he if he is in sound health and with perfect situation around. By living you two mean to continue live in existing body frame. But my meaning to living is the existance of inner self in any form with body or without body.

So let's reframe the discussion. Would I think that living for enternity, in a different body, without agony, or no body at all, would be something I'd want? Once again, no. Might be more interesting, and the desire to continue last a lot longer. But I honestly believe there would come a time when I would have enough and just want to be out of here, wherever "here" may, or may not, be. Now with my memory wiped, except maybe an occasional flash into the past... kind of like reincarnation? That might work.

[samsara15]

a flash of the past ... as in a dream?

It's possible that even the most delightful existence would eventually pale. We need challenge, to fail, to lose, every now and then. To fall on our face and make fools of ourselves. To much success might get boring.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: samsara15 a flash of the past ... as in a dream? It's possible that even the most delightful existence would eventually pale. We need challenge, to fail, to lose, every now and then. To fall on our face and make fools of ourselves. To much success might get boring.

It could be a dream, or a brief vision of a previous life, or intuition...


...so many options to choose from...

...so little ability to really know.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Ken Carman So let's reframe the discussion. Would I think that living for enternity, in a different body, without agony, or no body at all, would be something I'd want? Once again, no. Might be more interesting, and the desire to continue last a lot longer. But I honestly believe there would come a time when I would have enough and just want to be out of here, wherever "here" may, or may not, be.

It is your mental calculation imagining a very very long period say 10,000 years looking bordom. In reality it is not like that, you always live in present. It would never be boring since it is instinct of your's to exist eternally.

Supposing you are 30 years of age. You have mental calculation you lived for 30 long years. If somebody comes to you and says 30 years is enough and he has come to take you away from this world. I am 100% sure you would give 101 reasons for not accompanying him. As is true for 30 years would be equally true for 40.....100...10,000..... years!!!!:( :)

Now with my memory wiped, except maybe an occasional flash into the past... kind of like reincarnation? That might work.

You are right! The fact is that way only. Your memory is wiped out. Thefore somewhere, I have termed Death as head injury in which you lose all past memory so much so you forget your own physical contour. Additionally, at the time of death, you witness loss of body for which you mourn. Nature being kind fulfills your the wish to get another body, in the form of reincarnation.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: samsara15 If I could be computer simulated at age 18, financially secure with a great sex life and a healthy young body, I'd jump at the chance to do it! And I'd want to live forever.

Firstly, nature won't allow unnatural process to run. Aging of cells is a natural phenomina. Secondly, change always pleasing. After getting bored with ample sex, you would like to have children. Wloud like to spend time with your hobbies and the like.

Nature in the form of God is perfect in every respect, you would never be able to introduce any unatural phenomina.

[samsara15]

A computer simulated version of me would not be not nature, and therefore would not have to age. As for getting bored with sex, that would not happen. You pick your heaven, and I'll choose mine, but don't put your opinions and feelings into my mouth.

Nature in the form of God is not perfect at all, but simply what happened. Think about the wasps who lay their egg into caterpillars, that eat the poor caterpillar from inside out, saving its vital organs for last, so it will live, and suffer, as long as possible.

[Kuldeep]

I am not putting my opinions or feelings in anybody's mouth but say what I feel is right. Computer version of you won't age agreed. But that type of you has to have a mind to think and enjoy. Would that physical mind of that you won't have cells, neuron based functionig etc.? All right, let us presume everything is different, which won't age but it has to have a feeling through mind. Because that you have to enjoy sex eternally not possible without a sound mind. When you succeed to be the one, you have imagined then, after very very long period of enjoyment post your experience and further lasting wish then to me. I can tell you in advance, you won't be able to disprove that "Change always bear further enjoyment than the current situation of continual sex".

I am not sure, that you which want only sex would have a digestive system, system which would starve, feel hungry.....so on and so forth. Frankly, I could not fully understood your COMPUTER VERSION PERSONALITY. I cannot imagine a YOU which could enjoy only sex. At the monent I feel that type of YOU a impossibilty. Till you could develop that personality, let me consider present version of natural YOU and the nature you live in, as only perfect structure in all respects.:(

[samsara15]

Are you fixated on sex, and the body? I was referring, in general, to food and wine and travel and all the pleasures of the senses. Could also be learning mathematics, music, and so forth. I am imagining a completely functional verison of myself, such as was portrayed in the Matrix movies.

In addition, there is a lot more to sex than just a physical occurrence. It is an emotional interplay. A very complex interplay. Much more than just physical. All of our understanding, and enjoyment, of the outside world, comes from our senses. That was, a couple of centuries ago, formulated by Bishop Berkeley as 'idealism'. I label myself a sensualist.

[Kuldeep]

@samsara15

O.K you mean duplicate of you at 18 age which would remain eternally that type. It has come back to samething Aging cannot be avoided!!!! But yiu say compuiter programmed Human of that type won't change.

We have no other option but wait till such technology is developed and rationalize the existing type of life we continue to be in.

[samsara15]

It is not necessary for the human to exist at all - only the comuter simulation, so aging does not apply. The simulated being would not even realize it was not real. A lot of people like to toy with the what-ifs that would occur if we were already simulated. All of our direct experience of the world comes from sensory input; the only things that are really real to us are that sensory input.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Unfortunately things are fixated on whatever they are fixated. You just have to live with the consequences.