Ban The Bible

[chronoguy]

Banning any type of book would go against our freedom. This country is all about freedom why should we constrict it. Any type of book can breed war and distruction if read the wrong way. Yes people have used the bible and God as an exuse to kill but they were wrong and God didnt want us to kill in his name. He wants us to learn and love one another. If you want to ban the bible you should also start banning a hell of alot of other books. The ban of the bible will start revolts, theres too many christians and people who read the bible to ban it with peace. I think that anyone who wants to ban the bible just doesnt understand the importance of the bible and its teachings.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Technosoul Hmmm? "For the Lord your Bible is a consuming fire, a jealous God". Note I made a little change in one of the words, to fit this topic. Ever here of Joan of Arc, they burned her at the stake because they thought that is what the Bible demanded. No fire trucks rescured her. Freedom is at stake, just look at all the holy wars being effected in the world nowadays. If the Bible had been banned look ago Joan would not have been fighting a holy war nor would the chruch back then have burned her at the stake for hearing voices from God. Thank your God that we have laws in our country that subdue murder for the sake of some religious opinon or interpretaton of some scripture. But with the right wing Christians in charge those laws might vanish along with other rights that support freedom. The holy wars might consume the whole earth. The mountian looks nice until it erupts fire from a volcanno ( volconvo?). It does not take much brainwashing for those goodie-two shoes to start kicking butt. As history has proven over and over. What is wrong with banning the bad effect caused by a book by teaching kids that some of the things they read in the Bible is very bad advice, and that some stories should not be used to justify those holy wars and other types of cultural bashing? And teach kids about how people like Bush can use the Bible to manipulate people to do wrong things - politically or otherwise. Before the "few" become too many - which we are close to attaining. The main commandment of the bible is about following orders and not about freedom of choice. Mixing clay and iron does not make for a good foundation.

Response to your glaring and inflammatory (get it, it's a pun) discrepancies in order:

1.) This first thing is a total non sequitur. I worship God, of course, and He has chosen throughout history to reveal Himself through His Spirit. And His early works and truth were recorded for us by those inspired by that Spirit. I don't worship leather and paper and ink, but then again, you knew that. You were just trying to get to me. NEXT!

2.) Joan of Arc would never have advocated the removal of the Bible. Further, the so-called religious reasons for burning her were merely a cover for the political ones. Hmm... let's see. She led the failing French to stunning victories over the English. The English burn her. Geez. I can't see any political motivation there at all. :rolleyes:

3.) The fire truck thing was, of course, a reference to Fahrenheit 451, a book in which a totalitarian government has banned the reading of all books including the Bible, ostensibly for many of the reasons YOU cite, but ultimately so that they can utterly control the minds of the people. In this book, fire trucks did not put out fires, but instead made bonfires of the houses harboring books, with the people who owned them inside. It's a good book. You should read it. That is, if it doesn't hurt your delicate sensibilities.

4.) You should know by now that I don't like the Religious Right. This needs no further explaining. If it confuses you, look at my posting history.

5.) True freedom is the freedom to choose dictatorship. Mull on that.

6.) BS....BS...BS

7.) Oh, yeah. Because people who, because of the Word, don't believe in war or murder or even resisting people who try to harm you are deep down inside really just waiting for the opportunity to go Texas Chainsaw Massacre on everyone. Riiiiiiiiiiiight. :eek:

8.) This paragraph (What is wrong with...) is contradictory. I will not respond unless you clarify.

9.) a.) I don't like Bush. If that confuses you, I once again refer you to my other posts.
b.) Erm...have you seen the election results yet? I wouldn't be too sure in this. Actually, it went down just as I predicted: the country swung back the other way. All of politics is negative and reactionary. Look it up.

10.) You haven't really read it, have you?

[Ivor Henry]

The title Ban The Bible is being use verry loosly right about now. What i mean is that the tite need to be more specific, for example Ban the Holy Bible or The Islam Bible.

[phoenix_fire]

Muslims don't call their book "the Bible".

[Abdullah]

It's called the Qur'an.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Do you think that "promoting violence" and "immoral behaviour" are as offensive as banning the most read book in the world, that many base their lives around? And I'd hate to see what would happen if the government tried to do this to the Koran.

Note: I am not suggesting that the government should ban any book. What I am suggesting is that parents should limit the Bible from the home for the sake of children. And I am suggesting that people should become better informed about the terroristic bad side effects that might happen due to such teachings.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kuroko Your arguement is moot in many area's. The content of the book does contain evidence of moral misgivings and wrongs. I believe that was the point. To speak of adultery is not to encourage it. To give example is not to impact for the example comes with an often well known negative.

Yeah? And so have you read the story about Samiel ordering the mass murder of a neighboring country in the name of God, and all those other simular stories? They not only speak of terrorism and mass murder but they also adovate that it was all right, and would be all right.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Technosoul As our nation moves towards rating movies and other sources of entertainment I think parents should ban the Bible from their homes for the sake of the children and the next generation, as well as any from of religious teaching that might promote or justify violence and war, in any degree. Also, parents might concider banning the Bible in their homes because it can missguide youngsters about sex and other behavior trates that are normal and healthy, creating guilts, internal conflicts, and sometimes insanity. Of course the Bible and simular writings contain some suggestions that are of value, but overall we might question if it is doing more harm then good. My opinion is that history would suggest "more harm then good". What do you think?

I think that it is as treasonous to suggest that people should be denied their right to the FREE EXERCISE of religion that is guaranteed in the first amendment, as it is for Christian Nationalists to try to take over governments and social institutions.

[The 68]

I've got a new thread idea. How about one called:

"Ban people who take rather overt shots at the Bible and Christianity under the guise of trying to help people be good parents"

Or

"Yeah, I make my parenting decisions based on what people write on the volconvo debate boards"

Those sound like 2 good ones to me.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Chancellor I think that it is as treasonous to suggest that people should be denied their right to the FREE EXERCISE of religion that is guaranteed in the first amendment, as it is for Christian Nationalists to try to take over governments and social institutions.

Then you agree that parents can exercise free will by banning Bibles in their homes relative to use by minors or foolish family members. The Bible is already banned as reading mateiral in public schools so why not the home also?

Would you stock your house with bomb building books just so the kids have a well rounded source of reading material? It makes good sense.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: The 68 I've got a new thread idea. How about one called: "Ban people who take rather overt shots at the Bible and Christianity under the guise of trying to help people be good parents" Or "Yeah, I make my parenting decisions based on what people write on the volconvo debate boards" Those sound like 2 good ones to me.

Why would managing what your kids are exposed too be a "guise" (of good parenting)? I cannot agree it is a guise at all.

you do have a nearly good idea of a future post but it should read

"What is the best way to make parenting decisions"? (What sources are the most trustworthy and effective?).

However, taking cheap shots at the idea in this topic by saying that the topic is taking cheap shots at christians is not going to cut the mustard, you need to elaborate. Too many "shots" being fired in the world because of religious opinons (from real guns) is one reason I posted this concept.

Some of the Biblical stories and passages can have the same effect as gangster rap music on the minds of it's cult followings.

[weasel]

What about the first amendment? Would throw that out the window too?

To quote Captain Picard,

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as a wisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged."

And what would banning the instrument of a religious teaching, one that this nation was founded on, show us to be? It would rightly expose us as a nation of cowards too afraid to uphold the founding principles of America: namely, the ten amendments. And what is so wrong about the bible? If you're talking about the sex and violence, a ten year old could find infinitely worse things on TV and the internet that are much closer at hand. When it comes down to it, seeing past all the BC, banning the bible would be an attack on Christianity: a religion that promotes charity and the love of one's neighboor. Is this what you want to fight against? Teaching our children a definitive set of moral values that help them become good people?

[Jagged]

The arguments on this topic are so absurd, extreme, extremely anti-extreme, depraved, and off-topic that I'm surprised so many people are taking part in it. Anyways, ignoring all the other intricate stuff (however valuable) and skipping to the obvious: banning the Bible in America would violate the basic right of being able to practice a religion one wishes to pursuit, which is a rather huge portion of why people came to the Americas in the first place, not to mention a core fraction of the American constitution. The topic maker is also pretty much claiming Christianity to be solely harmful, when it is only harmful in extremes. I emphasize that, much of the time, Bible extremists are extremists because of their personality and not because of the Bible. They would just be extremists without the Bible on some other topic. If you are arguing against freedom of speech, then move somewhere else. If you already move somewhere else, then my argument ends here because i dont want to write any more.

If you ARE actually claiming Christianity as harmful and stupid, then i as an atheist think you are an arrogant and intolerable prick. Bye

There is no good use of pot (or any other mind-altering chemical).

I dont smoke, but you desperately need to understand that not everybody holds the same values as you. There, quite simply, IS a mentally productive use of pot. Yes, it can be harmful, and probably is overall, but to simply state that there is absolutely nothing good about pot or any other drug (hell I am INCLUDING pharmaceutical drugs, which definition includes being a mind altering chemical), youre just wrong.

[shield772]

Quote by: Technosoul Then you agree that parents can exercise free will by banning Bibles in their homes relative to use by minors or foolish family members. The Bible is already banned as reading mateiral in public schools so why not the home also? Would you stock your house with bomb building books just so the kids have a well rounded source of reading material? It makes good sense.

No it doesn't and it's ridiculous and idiotic.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: weasel What about the first amendment? Would throw that out the window too? To quote Captain Picard, "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as a wisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." And what would banning the instrument of a religious teaching, one that this nation was founded on, show us to be? It would rightly expose us as a nation of cowards too afraid to uphold the founding principles of America: namely, the ten amendments. And what is so wrong about the bible? If you're talking about the sex and violence, a ten year old could find infinitely worse things on TV and the internet that are much closer at hand. When it comes down to it, seeing past all the BC, banning the bible would be an attack on Christianity: a religion that promotes charity and the love of one's neighboor. Is this what you want to fight against? Teaching our children a definitive set of moral values that help them become good people?

Only one or two of the 10 Commandments have become legal binding laws in our country - as other deate topics have already pointed out. As other debate topics have already noted - it could well be a myth that Amreica was founded by Christians for the purpose of some church.

Stealing, and murder (without just cause) would be the two Commandments covered under our current consitutional law.

And mostly the stealing law is for poor people as some rich bankers and do it legal like.

I am not advocating that you cannot teach your children a definitive set of moral values. Lots of self help books you can check into by people like Dr Phil for that purpose, that do not have some of the more negitive moral codes contained in some of the Biblical stories.

I agree what teaching charity is a good idea along with a the wisdom not to be taken advantage of by those who might manipulate that wish to help.

If you feel that not banning the Bible for use by children is important to uphold consitutional freedoms then you must also allow you kids to study pronographic material, bomb making material, anti Jewish info by Hitler groups, and let them smoke pot, tobacco, and all other such "adult" things.

So you must determine if responsiblity as a parent is more important or if freedom in a consitutional sense is more important.

You must also explain to me why we have so many wars if the Bible is effective in teaching people brotherly love. With millions of Christians here in the USA one would think that we would have no more homeless or working poor people around, clearly the charity motivations from Biblical teachings is not getting the job done or is non-effective. Give me some facts please not just "day dreams".

Saying that a child can find worse things then what is bad in the Bible does not alter that parts of the Bible is bad for children. That is like the idea that we must pick between the best or worse of two evils - so why not find another book that is all positive and designed to promote the best moral concepts and that will fit the more evolved standards of our modern times.

Of course this idea might be mute because most kids do not want to read the Bible anyway, they would prefer Harry Potter or a book about that cute little yellow bear (what is it's name?)..... Or Spiderman.

Teach the kids the morals that you can realistically keep yourself without being a hypocrit, by your examples, and drop the books that teach ideas that you cannot "live up too" in your own reality. Ban also "perfectionism" as a realistic goal in life.

Sunday church is fine as long as you know how to party hearty on Sat nite.

[shield772]

Well you have just shown a great deal of ignorance in your understanding of the bible, The bad parts as you like to call them teach many lessons. and War is part of life as is sex, I am unable to understand what sex part of the Bible you all find offensive being as you are the same people who defend larr flint and the likes rights to publish their magazines but lets ban the bible, I would like you to please quote exact scriptures you find offensive. Thank you.

[DTB123]

Quote by: Technosoul As our nation moves towards rating movies and other sources of entertainment I think parents should ban the Bible from their homes for the sake of the children and the next generation, as well as any from of religious teaching that might promote or justify violence and war, in any degree. Also, parents might concider banning the Bible in their homes because it can missguide youngsters about sex and other behavior trates that are normal and healthy, creating guilts, internal conflicts, and sometimes insanity. Of course the Bible and simular writings contain some suggestions that are of value, but overall we might question if it is doing more harm then good. My opinion is that history would suggest "more harm then good". What do you think?

Hey Technosoul! How are you? Long time no see! I have been away for "a while" but I remembered your username as soon as I saw it.

As far as my personal experience with the Bible is concerned; I have found that it tells me how God is the source of life and light and joy to the universe. Like rays of light from the sun, like the streams of water bursting from a living spring, blessings flow out from Him to all His creatures. And wherever the life of God is in the hearts of men, it will flow out to others in love and blessing.

I have seen this over and over again; and that's in the Bible:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This kind of change would not come without a struggle. some would call that struggle "guilt" but I think of it as being one of 2 kinds of guilt. Good guilt, or bad guilt. We all need some of the good stuff!

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: weasel What about the first amendment? Would throw that out the window too? To quote Captain Picard, "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as a wisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." And what would banning the instrument of a religious teaching, one that this nation was founded on, show us to be? It would rightly expose us as a nation of cowards too afraid to uphold the founding principles of America: namely, the ten amendments. And what is so wrong about the bible? If you're talking about the sex and violence, a ten year old could find infinitely worse things on TV and the internet that are much closer at hand. When it comes down to it, seeing past all the BC, banning the bible would be an attack on Christianity: a religion that promotes charity and the love of one's neighboor. Is this what you want to fight against? Teaching our children a definitive set of moral values that help them become good people?

Super brownie points for the quote.

I agree. Fahrenheit 451 has been brought up a couple of times too and I think that is also an excellent point in accordance with what you have said. Techno should read it. It shows exactly what happens when the government starts trying to dictate what is and is not acceptable to read and think. Or try 1984. Techno would find several of those self same arguments for "ban the Bible" in the mouths of the oppressors in those stories.

[Jack]

Wait a minute.
Shouldn't the christians be in favor of banning the bible?

I'm no PR man, but I have worked with HUMINT before. I understand human motivations.

Banning anything immediately increases that item's value and adds an aura of credibility to it. People want what they can't have. The forbidden fruit. Yada yada.

In addition, christians would finally gain a little credibility with their claims of persecution if you were to ban their holy book.

All the way around it would be a positive development for the christian faith if the bible were to be banned.

Not to mention that we don't even posses a legal infrastructure in the U.S. capable of enforcing a ban nationwide.

[phoenix_fire]

Well, while persecution probably would be useful (I hope no one misunderstands what I am saying here) for us to advocate banning the Bible would mean that we agree that it is bad. It's not really persecution if we help implement it. Now, trust me, if the Bible were banned, I'd take great pride in being a smart alleck and carrying mine around anyway, defying anyone to do something about it. But I'm not going to egg something like this on.