What is the soul?

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Atlas While I do sympathize with your theory as I myself considered it to be possible and logical before this thread, phenomenons like these can be scientifically explained. The word "information" that You use in itself is a spacetime definition, hard to see how it or anything can exist without space or time.

Spacetime, is not the same as space and time. The word 'spacetime' refers to a specific thing - the framework within which our reality is defined. Superstring and M-brane theories are attempts to describe the structure of spacetime.

None of that that says that there is not some form of space and some form of time outside of the spacetime that we know.



Also. Just because a phenomenon can be explained in materialist terms (which not the same thing as scientific terms) - that does not mean that the materialist explanation is the best fit.

A large portion of people who have NDEs experience a life review. The life review is a specific process, with local variation according to the beliefs and experiences of the individual. I have not seen a good explanation for why people would so frequently experience the same process. It is more than just memories popping up. The life review is also rather inconsistent with the religous beliefs of most people, because it focuses on the consequences of their actions rather than placing great importance on their beliefs.


Any belief system can be rationalized. If you start from the assumption that any materialist explanation is superior to a nonmaterialist explanation, then you will always reach a materialist conclusion. This is because, if you try hard enough, you can always find a materialist explanation.

If you start with a mindset that does not assume that one set of explanations is superior to another, then the materialist explanation for some phenomena start to seem a bit contrived.

[Technosoul]

It is reather interesting how our brain can cause our mind to imagine us doing things when we are in a dream state. in the dream it seems real enough, and often the physical body will react to the dream like it would in our awaken status.

When I was in grammer school I was bored by the teacher and the class room so I learned how to day dream - soon I was "somewhere else" having fun. But it was just imagination.

So I think the soul is more then imaginary, it IS the imagination. It is that space in our mind that we can use to escape in, like a indwelling space ship. (ufo).

It might be possible that our mental awareness escapes into our imagination at death and we can spend eternity in that imaginary zone - the everlasting day dream - where what we wish to imagine is what will be our "extra reality".

When I visited my mother at the old folks home she could not remember anyone who came to visit, she was once a big fan of the Bible put now all that was also forgotten. She would dose off and then pop up with a whole conversation about what she had been dreaming about - mostly about people she knew in her childhood days. Strange for me, she talked about "the Other" as being "home". She once saw a crow sitting on a electric wire outside the window and she remarked "if he is not careful we will have to bring him home". (if he gets an electric shock and dies he will go to that "heaven" - the "Other" place in her imagination).

In reading Native Ameircan books we hear how they believe their spirit can journey out-of-body, or their spirit can hop into the body of a deer or wolf so they can vanish from view as a human being. Then we got remote viewing as experimented with by the CIA. We got people who review their past lives with some method of guided meditation, or whatever - "out on the limb" stuff.

People who die for a moment and go through a tunnel towards the light where they see their family waiting - like a total re-experience of being born from a dark womb into the bright lights of a hospital where mother and others are waiting to greet you. A flashback????

Then we got endless pages of things people experienced while on LSD where the illusions of a druged imagination took them "far out man".

Chemical reactions - just science at play.

Did the multi-generational use of mind expanding drugs by primitive people cause humans to evolve a brain that makes such chemicals that cause this odd mind-set called the imagination, which manifested in religious terms as being the "soul"? Or is it a left over tool of childhood where we learn from playing how to do adult things - like a kitty playing with a toy to learn how to hunt for real to get food? Just a stepping stone in a program of training our self for "the real thing".

And what about the famous "I had a dream" speech by King Jr. Sounded downright spiritual to me - more then just humdrum knowledge.

Ending then I would claim that the Soul is the Illuminated Imagination which somehow zoomed into our mind like a UFO from out of the blue, and it has become our vehicle of light, for tripping out on the next vision quest, and for communicating ideas that might other wise be alien to our normal forms of learning. In which we can establish a belief that fantisy is better then reality, and from that fantisy we can improve and make the world a better place for human beings. So hop into your soul and rev up the engines - and follow that dream.

[Jack]

The soul is what evaluates the knowledge and acts on it.

So Fonceai, does that mean you believe the soul is just another activity of the brain or that it is a unique entity?

[Fonceai]

Quote by: Isherwood So Fonceai, does that mean you believe the soul is just another activity of the brain or that it is a unique entity?

I think the soul is supernatural. By supernatural, I mean not yet explained in nature.

"Soul" is our name for it.

If it's in the brain, then it's a part we can't isolate or measure. We're able to analyze coma patients and see where their brains are inactive, but those parts aren't a soul.

If it's a unique entity, then it's still something we can't isolate or measure.

If I had to make a purely personal opinion on it, I think that when brain transplants are possible, the "soul" goes with the brain. To me, that means that the soul is either something purely biological, or the soul stays attached to its storage.

Or to use a crude analogy, if the brain is a computer, memories are the hard drive. Some people have better processors and more RAM (faster access to memories and better short term memory). The soul is the user of the computer, the part that actually takes all that information and makes use of it.

In that sense, if you have to get a new computer, you as the user want the stuff on the hard drive. That's why I think the soul is attached to memory somehow.

[dreamer]

The soul is what we are the bit we take forward to the next life, thats what gives use feelings. It bases itself in the heart were all life begins, createing the body we live in today so we can walk the earth taste, feel, ear, see and to do the things we are here to do. So we know what to take to the next stage in our lifes what ever that may be for all of use thats what i belive and i have faith in that. when you die and look down just like i have you know whats to come. I will meet you all at the place of light when you are all ready to come, NOT AS BODY BUT OF SOUL..

Dreamer

[Martha.G]

What is a soul? a soul is something very hard to describe and a very sensetaive, courageous and faithful companion that everyone carries. I think everybody haves a soul in different characteristics some can be cold or tough or even just mean. Everyone is unique in its on individaul way. It doesnt really have to be materialistic but it can be full of joy.

[Technosoul]

[quote=phoenix_fire;300778]Something about this doesn't jive with me. I am always interested in first causes. If I had been totally uninfluenced either by science or any kind of theology and I saw someone drop dead, what on earth would make me think that that person still functioned in some way? UFOs may seem like the invention of more contemporary times, but if you look through history, the concept and a lot of the details are a very old story. People say that ancient men would look at something they couldn't explain and call it the work of a god. But why would they think that? Whence did the concept of a "god" originate? Perhaps that was originally a cause of some things, but who originally imagined something like that? I can see where people down the road would use that explanation because it had been used before. But if I were totally uninfluenced, what would make me look at rain falling from the sky and make me think that some personified higher power was in charge of it? I think that the explanations don't go far enough.[/QUOTE)

If we look at how ancient cultues were set up, that is to say what kind of government they had, then we get a clue to your question.

In Sumer, Babylon, Eqypt, Rome, and in the Jewish communities, they all had Kings and kingdoms with one person in charge as the "most high ranking person". With other people appointed to other leadership roles.
Or they had one person as the head of a church and he ruled the community or country.

Because the human governemnts were set up with one guy in charge we could expect them to also believe that one God is in charge, with lesser gods or angels having lower roles of rulership or purpose.

The Native Americans belived in one mian "Great Spirit" and many "lesser spirits in nature". They also had one Chief or Medicene man in charge of the tribe's government.

In China or buddest locations they also had kings running the show, but it is not clear if they believed in a "God like" divine being - other then a "world teacher" person. But they did suggest a higher source for gaining enlighenment and "salvation" from a bad Karma.

Often the "most high" leader was one with great power and glory, which would be related in human terms as a person having the best "shock and awe" military - a military with the most power and glory. Which is why war has remianed a sacred and holy ritual for so many years.

So what came first? The human Chief or a human concept of God? What system influence which?

If we look to nature for that answer we most likely would come up with "the sun". The sun plays the most important role relative to life on planet "mother" earth. Although the moon and stars have roles during the night, the sun is the most dominating - the greatest power and glory visible to mankind. Next would be earth - then the aspects of weather, the moon adds some mystery to it all, and on down the chain to volcanos, as well as animals that people feared or respected.

As a human it would be hard to imagine a country, a family, a company, a military, a classroom at school, without someone being in charge, without one person being the leader. Although some have experimented with the 50 -50 marrage idea.

And so how could we think of a system like the universe as not also having "someone in charge" of it all?

But we cannot tell at this late date if things are "below as above" or if we just imagine that "above is like it is on earth" relative to our human systems of government.

But all the systems seem simular, so at least "one idea" is in charge.

[Kuldeep]

Or to use a crude analogy, if the brain is a computer, memories are the hard drive. Some people have better processors and more RAM (faster access to memories and better short term memory). The soul is the user of the computer, the part that actually takes all that information and makes use of it. In that sense, if you have to get a new computer, you as the user want the stuff on the hard drive. That's why I think the soul is attached to memory somehow

I find the analogy between computer & its user with living human being quite interesting and also cleaverly put. I would like to add a bit from my side as:

Self (which we call individual) is associated with metaphysical mind, which in turn is associated with physical full physical body including memory of course. So to my mind the self + metaphysical mind = Soul. This soul not only evaluates, enjoys the individual existence of self but also makes various internal and external body functions of a personpossible. Contarary to this, various systems in computer are run by electricity and electrons flow while computer user only enjoys the computer functioning.

I want to point out that in case of computer, system functioning and user are two different identities while in case of living being both the fuctions are due to one identity viz. Soul you may call it!

[Fonceai]

Yeah.

Pretty deep concept, when you think about it.

[samsara15]

I like the Hindu concept of God, in which everything emanates from Brahman. In that case, our soul is just a small part of Brahman.

Even straight materialism implies that a chemical compound of enough complexity is alive, hence has some sort of soul (its DNA, RNA???).

[Fonceai]

@samsara

That's how I first learned of the concept of God having a small part in all of us; reading Hindu scripture.

[Kuldeep]

Both Fonceai & samsara have not really understood well what exactly is said in Hindu scriptures particularly about the absolute truth of this universe and the individuality of a person. It is not said that a part of God exists in every specie. In fact, it is said that duality as we perceive is nothing but the illusion. Exactly, the sameway as one object can have infinite number of images as the number of mirrors on which light from object falls on them. Implying thus that every individual does not contain a part of God but full god in it. Now to get to the real God (absolute consciousness) one has to erase the ego and sense of individuality from himself. In the example of mirror, images and object, we can achieve the object by not looking into mirrors but directly looking at the object. We can also say we should avoid all mirrors which in actual sense means to attain Godhood, one should come out of illusionary duality. In fact, it everythig is God only which seems to exist through this universe as one of its infinite other properties beyond our physical comprehension.:eek:

[Fonceai]

No, I understood the Hindu scriptures just fine.

I don't agree with all of what was written. I picked and chose what parts I was comfortable with.