Abstract verses personal God

[christibe]

Quote by: Athena Christibe, you such a stimulating writer. I can not repond to all the thoughts you stimulate in my head without writing a book. :) I will pick one thought at a time.

:) thanks Athena. It was strange to me though, because I didn't really remember writing the other post here. maybe i am like a muse or something? :) i just get ideas and just blurt them out, but I'm almost unable to, i guess, hold onto them? So good that someone else can. :)

In Egyptian theology, there is a trinity of soul. We are that trinity of soul. When we die, the physical part dies. The remaining soul is judged by Isis and either enters the good after life or does not, and regardless of judgement, a part of our trinity returns to the original cosmic source. Thus, we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

That is really beautiful!

This is in contrast to the Christian trinity if God, son and holy ghost. With this trinity, all that is spiritual and holy is outside of self. Thus you get humans separate from spiritual reality, living under God's authority and the few individuals who represent God's authority on earth.

Sure sure, but by being created by God himself we are a part of everything, made from the dust of the earth, I would think that this alone points to an internal spiritual reality. Then, the idea of the soul, which is within us somehow, and which is judged as us, at the end of the mortal life. I just don't know if the trinity takes the god out of us.

In anceint times, God was wise and compassionate, but when Christianity reaches Germany, God becomes autocratic and there is greater focus on the punishment and fear of not being accepted by God. This is a huge change in the preception of God, and part of why Protestants and Catholics are divided.

I disagree with this, but that's ok- this is a spirituality thread. :)

Germans followed pagan traditions until and through Roman times. When Rome collapsed and the new-ish Christian religion took power and formed the Holy Roman Catholic Church, it set upon Europe a dark time for spirituality. The early Church taught compassion and grace, but as the bureaucracy expanded and time progressed, that was replaced with fear, spiritual repression almost and taxation. The Church ruled the nobles, and most people were slaves. There was basically no advancement in the sciences, except in architecture for the purpose of building giant cathedrals. Ceremony, inquisition and religious dominance prevailed, and then the Crusades! God, it is horror. Then, Martin Luther realized the nature of indulgences and posted his proclamation in Germany to the Church in 1546. Sure sure, Luther was an anti-Semite, or so it can be gleaned through his writings... but that was mostly for killing Jesus and all. But, I love Martin Luther for the Reformation. He gave God back to the people, as it was. I know his whole message was convoluted, but the premise is ideal and pure.

The only way to know Jesus is through yourself. You do not need the church to have faith. It's already within you, and the Catholic Church is only about its own power. So, get rid of it.

What people did after him is another story.

Wait, I just realized that maybe you weren't talking about Luther.?

I don't know. :)

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Athena And what I am saying about thinking scientifically is different from what both of you said, how? When we advance in science to quantum physics, the connections with Eastern philosophy stand out. This is studying God, verses reading a holy book to understand God.

Quote by: arielmessenger that has not be derived from reading Eastern holy books. What you post above doesn't make sense.

Ariel is very correct Athena. Modern Science is not out come of messages given in Eastern holy books. Modern Science has limitations of physical manifestation, which is also one way to understand God's one set of properties. Some Eastern Holy Books are taking the path of metaphysical path, which Modern Science feels does not exist to best of their physical understanding. The fact is metaphysical side also is another way to understand God through power of Consciousness of higher order than nuronal pulses as science has understood!!!

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: christibe :) Sure sure, but by being created by God himself we are a part of everything, made from the dust of the earth, I would think that this alone points to an internal spiritual reality. Then, the idea of the soul, which is within us somehow, and which is judged as us, at the end of the mortal life. I just don't know if the trinity takes the god out of us.

I feel God has not created us but we are one property of some super power which may be called God. Internal spiritual reality is that You are de-illusioned God (Universal Consciousness) in the form of one Individualistic Consciousness with a separate feeling of existence.

The only way to know Jesus is through yourself. You do not need the church to have faith. It's already within you, and the Catholic Church is only about its own power. So, get rid of it.

What you said is near perfect. The exact perfect is that You are Jesus and Jesus is you. In other words the duality is illusion of individual consciousness (mind). If feeling of individual existence is erased by stepwise methods mentioned in different forms of Yogas, individual consciousness merges into universal consciousness, which can be termed by any name : Jesus, Ishwer, Allah, God ...and the like
[/quote]

[christibe]

Quote by: Kuldeep What you said is near perfect. The exact perfect is that You are Jesus and Jesus is you. In other words the duality is illusion of individual consciousness (mind). If feeling of individual existence is erased by stepwise methods mentioned in different forms of Yogas, individual consciousness merges into universal consciousness, which can be termed by any name : Jesus, Ishwer, Allah, God ...and the like

Most definitely.

man, I used to be able to go on and on with spirituality topics in threads like these. I guess through not really focusing on my spirituality for a while, after over-stressing myself about it for a long time, 'trying to find the right way',, i came to a better place of understanding in myself. Strange how it changes over time. Especially having a huge loss in your life, and you realize that you were the cause. Changes things a bit. Now, to me, god is just what is everything, and god is not a thing at all. it's just beauty, grace, honesty and compassion.

I don't think I will add to future spiritual debates here, as that pretty much summarizes my view. I wouldn't be adding anything, so, kind thanks for letting me participate here on this thread. Good luck on your journeys!
christina

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: christibe Now, to me, god is just what is everything, and god is not a thing at all. it's just beauty, grace, honesty and compassion.

Very true and well said "god is not a thing at all". But then "What is everything" is also a thing. In view of this my feeling is "What is everything (Manifested)" is only one of the other numerous non-conceivable properties of SOMETHING, unknowable by physical or metaphysical, paraphysical or any other means, is GOD !!!

I don't think I will add to future spiritual debates here, as that pretty much summarizes my view.

Your view is very near to my view but, with that marginal difference of calling "What is everything as property of God and not the God as you termed it)

I wouldn't be adding anything,

Future is the onlty thing which is unpredictable. Mind is such a flexible system, which might change anytime. I am sure, anyway, you won't be able to restrict yourself responding my posts on sprituality on this thread or any other thread. The simple reason for that is our views are not exactly same but are similar !!! Both views are two side of same coin of Reality.

so kind thanks for letting me participate here on this thread. Good luck on your journeys! christina

Well thanks should go to the Mod. But, thanks are due to you for writing your views in gist and very near reality.

[arielmessenger]

My understanding of God has been developed through divine intervention unlike most people's, especially intellectuals like myself. I came to God as an atheist and nothing but spiritual congruency to the real world could satisfy my intellectual need to understand reality. I guess because my heredity and culture stem from the Abrahamic/European interpretation, God chose Abrahamic religious concepts and their Canaanite roots to show how the spiritual Archetypal Dramas are played in real time, real history. But then "out of nowhere" the Native American spiritual influence made itself known in my life--big time. So now my spiritual beliefs are a melding of the two worlds, Old and New.

The Lakota do have the best definition of God around which is Wakan Tanka, or the Great Mystery or Great Mysterious One.

But for me, the highest spiritual Reality and utter proof of God and God's existence is what I call The Path.

from my book-

"But when I think about the Creator, I really cannot tell the difference between what people are calling "God" and this Path that has been laid out before me to follow. Something has laid it before me and that Something, for me, for my particular Path, is using histories, icons and religious concepts from both Old World Holy Land traditions and New World Native American spirituality.

I can identify the historical Path that tells me the names and concepts humans have given the Something that has laid out my Path but, as I say, I really cannot distinguish between the Path itself and whatever has laid it out..from the beginning.."

We are Holy One. This is the latest example of the Holy Land Hebraic prophetic visionary experience of God.



God's Cosmic Plan

[Athena]

Quote by: christibe :) thanks Athena. It was strange to me though, because I didn't really remember writing the other post here. maybe i am like a muse or something? :) i just get ideas and just blurt them out, but I'm almost unable to, i guess, hold onto them? So good that someone else can. :) That is really beautiful! Sure sure, but by being created by God himself we are a part of everything, made from the dust of the earth, I would think that this alone points to an internal spiritual reality. Then, the idea of the soul, which is within us somehow, and which is judged as us, at the end of the mortal life. I just don't know if the trinity takes the god out of us. I disagree with this, but that's ok- this is a spirituality thread. :) Germans followed pagan traditions until and through Roman times. When Rome collapsed and the new-ish Christian religion took power and formed the Holy Roman Catholic Church, it set upon Europe a dark time for spirituality. The early Church taught compassion and grace, but as the bureaucracy expanded and time progressed, that was replaced with fear, spiritual repression almost and taxation. The Church ruled the nobles, and most people were slaves. There was basically no advancement in the sciences, except in architecture for the purpose of building giant cathedrals. Ceremony, inquisition and religious dominance prevailed, and then the Crusades! God, it is horror. Then, Martin Luther realized the nature of indulgences and posted his proclamation in Germany to the Church in 1546. Sure sure, Luther was an anti-Semite, or so it can be gleaned through his writings... but that was mostly for killing Jesus and all. But, I love Martin Luther for the Reformation. He gave God back to the people, as it was. I know his whole message was convoluted, but the premise is ideal and pure. The only way to know Jesus is through yourself. You do not need the church to have faith. It's already within you, and the Catholic Church is only about its own power. So, get rid of it. What people did after him is another story. Wait, I just realized that maybe you weren't talking about Luther.? I don't know. :)

You might want to learn of the history of the Holy Roman Empire, verses the Pope's in Rome.

Holy Roman Empire - History for Kids!

And if you read Martin Luther, I doubt if you would still love him. He was a very superstitious man who believed the witch hunts were necessary. He most certainly did not believe in equality, but in the master/servant relationship. Modern Christians have so romanatized their religion it is painful. We once taught history, and boy oh boy, do we need history for a more realistic understanding of reality.

[Athena]

Quote by: arielmessenger My understanding of God has been developed through divine intervention unlike most people's, especially intellectuals like myself. I came to God as an atheist and nothing but spiritual congruency to the real world could satisfy my intellectual need to understand reality. I guess because my heredity and culture stem from the Abrahamic/European interpretation, God chose Abrahamic religious concepts and their Canaanite roots to show how the spiritual Archetypal Dramas are played in real time, real history. But then "out of nowhere" the Native American spiritual influence made itself known in my life--big time. So now my spiritual beliefs are a melding of the two worlds, Old and New. The Lakota do have the best definition of God around which is Wakan Tanka, or the Great Mystery or Great Mysterious One. But for me, the highest spiritual Reality and utter proof of God and God's existence is what I call The Path. from my book- "But when I think about the Creator, I really cannot tell the difference between what people are calling "God" and this Path that has been laid out before me to follow. Something has laid it before me and that Something, for me, for my particular Path, is using histories, icons and religious concepts from both Old World Holy Land traditions and New World Native American spirituality. I can identify the historical Path that tells me the names and concepts humans have given the Something that has laid out my Path but, as I say, I really cannot distinguish between the Path itself and whatever has laid it out..from the beginning.." We are Holy One. This is the latest example of the Holy Land Hebraic prophetic visionary experience of God. God's Cosmic Plan

You are not the only one who has had a spiritual experience.

I appreciate what appears to be your knowledge of religions. Your explamation of the Lakota Great Mystery has appeal, and I think all religions can identify with it, but the organization of religions distorts truth, as soon as they establish human authoriity/power over others, and the followers know of only one religion and not all others.

The belief that a God can have favorite people, really messed things up.

[arielmessenger]

"The belief that a God can have favorite people, really messed things up."

If the Brahma/Abraham connection is true then there might be an explanation for the Jewish narcissism--a tribal/racial memory of being the highest caste in India then reduced to nomadic shepherd status but still believing that God will find the Cinderella tribal people and restore them to their true greatness.

But the idea all along was awful and not worthy of God Most High but only of a tribal god committed to the tribe--which Yahweh was..Trying to make Yahweh into a universal God has always been the problem. Yahweh blew it along time ago it turns out and only now is the karmic results being seen for what they are--terribly confused religious ideologies posing as the Word of God.

Personally, as one with Jewish ancestry, I think you can easily make a case for God punishing Jews all through their history for the hubris and narcissism of trying to monopolize God all to themselves. Now, with so many Jews completely atheistic and only loyal to the Jewish Cult, we can see that God left the Jewish religion long ago and what grew and remained was only Cult and that's what we get today--a paranoid religious Cult with a hell of a lot of political power..