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TheTruth · Nov 16, 2006, 12:31 am

bottom line God told them not to do it and they did it. what made the act immoral was the fact that they dissobeyed God. whats the point in even arguing past this point?

phoenix_fire · Nov 16, 2006, 12:41 am

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

This makes people equal to god, then.

Not a bit.

zauhiyq · Nov 16, 2006, 04:33 am

Quote:

Quote by: TheTruth

bottom line God told them not to do it and they did it. what made the act immoral was the fact that they dissobeyed God. whats the point in even arguing past this point?

because who was God to tell them what to do? You know who God is to you, but not to Adam and Eve. free will? lol, Who wouldn't have questioned the hell out of God. Why the hell, can't I eat it? Well get i tthe hell out of here God! The hell you think this is, you trying to send me to hell? lol

The story really is for sick people.

phoenix_fire · Nov 16, 2006, 10:30 am

Oh yeah, that's excellent gratitude for, ya know, being created and stuff.

Technosoul · Nov 16, 2006, 10:40 am

Quote:

Quote by: TheTruth

bottom line God told them not to do it and they did it. what made the act immoral was the fact that they dissobeyed God. whats the point in even arguing past this point?

And are you saying that "not following orders commanded" is the meaning for what is moral or not morality? That dictatorships are moral and democratic free will is immoral.

Followinng the orders of the Cammander and Chief and never "thinking for yor self" is Biblically being set forth by the Bible as "morality".

In my opinon that interpretation could become rather problematic.

phoenix_fire · Nov 16, 2006, 11:30 am

There's a distinct difference: God is perfect and His orders are good.

Technosoul · Nov 16, 2006, 06:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: phoenix_fire

There's a distinct difference: God is perfect and His orders are good.

Who are you to judge that God is perfect? Who are you to judge that His Orders are good?

You are saying that it is okay for God to be a dictator and that his orders are good compared to human dictators.

Realistically it would be possible for a human dictator to be moral and good and to give out orders that are fair and just for everyone in his kingdom of influence. Even if we have no examples of such that I know about off hand.

But for us to go around judging that God is good or not good is rather silly and you should know better because you repremand people who judge God as "not so good". (it works both ways - logically).

Now IF a real God wanted to raise hell on earth then we would have to grin and bear it anyway, even if we found such action as being wrong, unjust, or just down-Right mean. The whole idea of a dictatorship is that no one can judge the Dictator, they got noplace higher to turn too for overcoming his/her orders.

The biggest problem with following the orders of God is that religions have become the "middlemen" for interpreting those orders, starting off with those who wrote them down as a Bible, as well as the Pope, the head of the Mormon faith, and backwoods preachermen everywhere, and even people such as President Bush who has allowed such to dictate governmental policy. And sometimes even people like me - although no one follows my orders so I never became God.

How could God give orders anyway? If he did folks would just think "Gee, I am having some weird illusions going on in my mind, I must be going crazy or something". So it is pointless to believe that God gives orders because they would just call the guys in the little white jackets to help you "if you are hearing voices".

"They are coming to take me away ha ha hee hee, to the funny farm where the trees are green and the birds are chirping " ..... Basket weaving, anyone?

TheTruth · Nov 16, 2006, 11:15 pm

Quote:

And are you saying that "not following orders commanded" is the meaning for what is moral or not morality? That dictatorships are moral and democratic free will is immoral.

Followinng the orders of the Cammander and Chief and never "thinking for yor self" is Biblically being set forth by the Bible as "morality".

im sorry i believe you misunderstood me. it is disobeying GOD that is immoral. disobey dictatorships all you want to lol.

samsara15 · Nov 17, 2006, 01:11 pm

God claims to be perfect. That is nothing more than propaganda. Propaganda put out by priests. Written in a book that is itself propaganda.

Fonceai · Nov 17, 2006, 01:28 pm

@samsara

Everything is propaganda if you're saying it to another person, or otherwise expressing it for the purpose of another person viewing it.

Proganda isn't always bad, but there is another side to it. People have to believe it.

Heehoos · Nov 17, 2006, 02:57 pm

I love how there are so many interpretations for the Adam and Eve story. :)

Okay, this is my take:

First, one must ask themselves who wrote the Adam and Eve story and why they wrote it. It was initially attributed to Moses who was said to have written all of the Pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. (Although that would also mean that Moses wrote about his own death etc.) When you read the first two chapters of Genesis, it is evident that they each had a different author. It is now known by scholars that the Bible was not written in the order in which it is now displayed in the Bible. So the first and second chapters of Genesis may be from different times in history.

The fundamental reason for the story was to connect God's people (Israel) to God. That's why all the "begets" in Numbers. The people of Israel have a documented history back to the origins of man and to God Himself.

However, writing wasn't readily available back then. So the account is all word-of-mouth. It is a general theory that the story was a created story -- by humankind -- to explain their beginnings and connection to God. And moreso, connects Jesus through the history of Israel back to God.

The story itself is likely an allegory. And from the description of many here, there are many lessons we can derive from it.

It is said that Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does this mean that her action taught her the difference? Or did it simply make her aware of it where before she was blind to it -- ignorant? Innocent?

Perhaps the lessons of Jesus were to bring us back to the point before Eve's action in the story. The New Testament teaches us that he who lives by the law will be judged by the law. Galatians 3:23-25: "Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

The eating of the apple from the fateful tree brought the recognition of good and evil to humankind. Before evil may have existed; but ignorance to it gave it no power or authority. Being aware of it gave evil authority over us and made it necessary to create laws to keep it at bay. Then Jesus came in an attempt to take that authority back again, saying that if we do not focus on good or evil but simply on the love of God and all that God has made, then we will live well simply out of the goodness around us.

Or something like that...

Nov 16, 2006, 12:31 am	#41 (permalink) (top)
TheTruth Sedimentary Rock Posts: 14	Did Eve make the right moral choice? bottom line God told them not to do it and they did it. what made the act immoral was the fact that they dissobeyed God. whats the point in even arguing past this point?

Nov 16, 2006, 10:30 am	#44 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	Oh yeah, that's excellent gratitude for, ya know, being created and stuff. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Nov 16, 2006, 11:30 am	#46 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	There's a distinct difference: God is perfect and His orders are good. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Nov 17, 2006, 01:11 pm	#49 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 I'm the camel Location: Maryland Posts: 657	God claims to be perfect. That is nothing more than propaganda. Propaganda put out by priests. Written in a book that is itself propaganda. Economic Left/Right -8.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian –6.97

Nov 17, 2006, 01:28 pm	#50 (permalink) (top)
Fonceai BANNED Location: New York Posts: 4,217	@samsara Everything is propaganda if you're saying it to another person, or otherwise expressing it for the purpose of another person viewing it. Proganda isn't always bad, but there is another side to it. People have to believe it.

Nov 17, 2006, 02:57 pm	#51 (permalink) (top)
Heehoos Molten Ash Location: Pacific Northwest, USA Posts: 103	I love how there are so many interpretations for the Adam and Eve story. :) Okay, this is my take: First, one must ask themselves who wrote the Adam and Eve story and why they wrote it. It was initially attributed to Moses who was said to have written all of the Pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. (Although that would also mean that Moses wrote about his own death etc.) When you read the first two chapters of Genesis, it is evident that they each had a different author. It is now known by scholars that the Bible was not written in the order in which it is now displayed in the Bible. So the first and second chapters of Genesis may be from different times in history. The fundamental reason for the story was to connect God's people (Israel) to God. That's why all the "begets" in Numbers. The people of Israel have a documented history back to the origins of man and to God Himself. However, writing wasn't readily available back then. So the account is all word-of-mouth. It is a general theory that the story was a created story -- by humankind -- to explain their beginnings and connection to God. And moreso, connects Jesus through the history of Israel back to God. The story itself is likely an allegory. And from the description of many here, there are many lessons we can derive from it. It is said that Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Does this mean that her action taught her the difference? Or did it simply make her aware of it where before she was blind to it -- ignorant? Innocent? Perhaps the lessons of Jesus were to bring us back to the point before Eve's action in the story. The New Testament teaches us that he who lives by the law will be judged by the law. Galatians 3:23-25: "Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." The eating of the apple from the fateful tree brought the recognition of good and evil to humankind. Before evil may have existed; but ignorance to it gave it no power or authority. Being aware of it gave evil authority over us and made it necessary to create laws to keep it at bay. Then Jesus came in an attempt to take that authority back again, saying that if we do not focus on good or evil but simply on the love of God and all that God has made, then we will live well simply out of the goodness around us. Or something like that...