Would you force your fetus -> heterosexual?

[Mia]

Quote by: Matt W Thanks for that, underbear1. Now, have you anything to add on-topic?

For once, that WAS on topic!

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: John I don't know of many technological advances that didn''t involve complexity and investment. Sooner or later, we will be able to manipulate these types of things, and people will have this type of debate, although I doubt it'll be this civil.

But do you believe that homosexuality is purely genetic? Is it not, like most other personality and behavioral traits, likely to be a mix of genetic and environmental factors? If so, would it really ever be feasible to eliminate the possibility of homosexuality through genetics?

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Underbear ANY parent who doesn't think they could respect, protect, and love a gay/lesbian child............shouldn't attempt parenthood, you don't have what it takes IMO.

Quote by: Mia For once, that WAS on topic!

Really? I thought the original premise of this topic was the elimination of homosexuality in order to minimise the child's suffering. The moral dilemma wasn't about whether you would love a hetero kid more than a homo one.

But now this really is off topic.

[JohnMK]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy But do you believe that homosexuality is purely genetic? Is it not, like most other personality and behavioral traits, likely to be a mix of genetic and environmental factors? If so, would it really ever be feasible to eliminate the possibility of homosexuality through genetics?

Stalking the Wild Taboo - Homosexuality

It might be noted that the interest in the evolutionary survival of homosexuality is independent of whether specific genes linked to homosexuality exist. There is evidence for such genes (Hamer et al. 1993, Hamer & Copeland, 1994, Hu et al. 1995). However, even if none of the variability in sexual orientation was genetic, there would still be the interesting question of how did humans come to be genetically constituted so that a relatively large proportion (say 2%) were homosexual. Thus, to ask the question of why there are so many homosexuals does not require accepting that there is a "homosexual gene". Suppose an "environmental" explanation for homosexuality (such as the stress hypothesis) comes to be accepted. There will still be the evolutionary question of how did humans evolve so as to have a genotype in which environmental factors could cause certain individuals to have a phenotype so poorly adapted to continuing the genotype as homosexuals are.

[Nathan Struth]

WEll...if everyone was homosexual I don't think there would be anymore children would there be??? Our species would die out! Unless you used lab test tubes of course...

[JohnMK]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Really? I thought the original premise of this topic was the elimination of homosexuality in order to minimise the child's suffering.

Underbear's comment was off-topic but I'd be a hypocrite to say I really cared. :p

The premise of the thread is two-fold:

1) Mom and dad want more grandchildren.
2) They also *might* want to minimize potential suffering/loneliness amongst their offspring.

I think both arguments hold some water. I'm more fond of 1, than of 2, but frankly I think this kind of manipulation just plain sucks. That doesn't mean I'd stop others from doing it, or try to make them feel bad for having done it.

This is a lot like abortion, an intensely personal decision to make, but at least it doesn't involve the theoretical (at least) loss of life itself.

[JohnMK]

Quote by: Nathan Struth WEll...if everyone was homosexual I don't think there would be anymore children would there be??? Our species would die out! Unless you used lab test tubes of course...

This would never happen . . . check out the explanation for why in the document I've linked to a couple times. :)

And IF everyone were homosexual, . . . there'd probably be some kind of Manhattan project for insemination, surrogacy, etc. Humanity wouldn't die out.

[underbear1]

To be fair any person who would be so paranoid to pre-select their child's sexual orientation, I wouldn't want to parent in general, but I sure as hell wouldn't want them raising someone gay/lesbian.

[underbear1]

Quote by: JohnMK Underbear's comment was off-topic but I'd be a hypocrite to say I really cared. :p The premise of the thread is two-fold: 1) Mom and dad want more grandchildren. 2) They also *might* want to minimize potential suffering/loneliness amongst their offspring. I think both arguments hold some water. I'm more fond of 1, than of 2, but frankly I think this kind of manipulation just plain sucks. That doesn't mean I'd stop others from doing it, or try to make them feel bad for having done it. This is a lot like abortion, an intensely personal decision to make, but at least it doesn't involve the theoretical (at least) loss of life itself.

Gays and lesbians can produce beautiful healthy grandchildren, a very good friend of mine is a lesbian grandmother, and her granddaughters adore her.

Sexual orientation doesn't determine whether anyone suffers or is lonely.
Most people have some of each of those periods in their lives, but it's not their orientation that was to blame.

[JohnMK]

Excellent points to chew on, underbear1. Thank you.

[Gabe2007]

Quote by: underbear1 Gays and lesbians can produce beautiful healthy grandchildren.

you mean they can produce children through unorthodox ways, like in labs and stuff. :rolleyes: maybe thats why its supposed to be male and female, not male/male or female/female...can you tell me how homosexuals reproduced in the 16th century??

[Plasma Snake[D]]

I think I would choose to make it hetero if it was "diagnosed" to be homosexual. But I also wonder what it is that makes people homosexuals. I really believe it is a disorder with a certain part of the brain. I always considered it a mental illness(think about it: illnesses are deviations from the norm. The norm is for a man to be with a woman.) I read somewhere that gay men are attracted to the body odor of other men. The distinctiojn between male/female sometimes blurs.

[Jack]

I read somewhere that gay men are attracted to the body odor of other men.

Maybe on a bathroom wall? Yeah, our ability to detect pheromones is far beyond the ability of straight men.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

I didnt mean that gay people can detect it better, i just mean that they are attracted to it. I didnt mean it like some pepe le peu scent trail that carries you.

[Cadre]

It's the technology that is causing the hyper-complex moral situations.

Leave it to nature my friends, she knows best

[harami]

Sticky issue: choosing the attributes of your baby.
Some think it is ok to abort severely disabled fetuses (downs syndrome, or other severe disabilities or problems). Some would like to chose the sex of their child (e.g. you have a girl and want a boy). You propose adding sexual orientation to the list. Clearly this wish list of attributes could be extended.

Where do you draw the line? Should every couple have a choice in any detail they would like or dislike? What is the borderline between a "severe problem" and a "matter of taste"? Does it matter? If all women have "the right to choose", then why don't all couples/women have the right to choose the properties of their offspring on any basis whatsoever? Is this religious issue or an issue that the state should involve itself in?

I will take the libertarian route and say that it should be left entirely to the individuals having the baby. To those with high moral persuasions, I put the onus on you to persuade the rest of the population of the validity of your argument.

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Id be wrong to say that "gay people" deserve tolerance simply because not all people that are gay deserve respect, just like not all straight people deserve respect. Its not a good idea to generalize and stereotype. Saying that we should be respectful of gay people is kind of like stereotyping. We should respect those that deserve respect, not just cause they are gay. But in some weird way, straight men have a natural tendency to reject those that are gay. I used to feel the same way, but I was surprised when I found out that one the people im a fan of(Chuck Pahlaniuk) was gay. I love the way he commentates on society. I guess not having women on the mind makes one concentrate better.

[Jack]

Quote by: harami I will take the libertarian route and say that it should be left entirely to the individuals having the baby.

I can agree with that. I don't know if it's an actual Libertarian position, but it does leave the decision with those who have the most at stake in the outcome.

Quote by: Plasma Snake not all people that are gay deserve respect, just like not all straight people deserve respect. Its not a good idea to generalize and stereotype.

Again I agree. We'll know we're truly equal when our orientation is no longer a consideration when someone is examining our character. We should be liked (or not) based on the same criteria as anyone else. Are we friendly, good company, fun, etc.

[Cephus]

Quote by: jose What makes a man attracted to another man? with all the diverse people on this planet, why choose a same sex partner?

By the same token, why not? Why choose an opposite sex partner? And what business is it of yours who someone else chooses to begin with?

[Blef]

Were it possible, it should be an entirely personal and individual decision of the parents whether or not to tinker with their children's characteristics before birth.

If it were to prevent a serious and avoidable medical condition or a physical defect, I'd do it. I would not tinker with sexual orientation.