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| 13.7B Light Years+ Location: 42 N, 83 W Posts: 1,018 | Birds & Bees may be gay.... Source Quote:
Did the christian god have anything to say about gays in the animal kingdom? If it's in the Genes, then isn't this the christian gods' fault? Why are chrisitans against gay marriage? I understand that the church has a right to do what it wants, but I also understand that the act of being gay is just another sin, like murder, yet you allow murderes to get married. Discuss... (Disclaimer, I am not gay, but I do support their fight for equal rights) God is superfluous, nuff said ![]() Life Made Easy, without a god Big Bang Misconceptions String Theory for the Layman | |
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| Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277 | Well, I mean...I don't want to be insulting here so I'll put this as delicately as I can. Your argument seems to state that because animals do it, it's natural and there's no reason why humans shouldn't do it. But animals do a lot of things that most of us would agree that humans shouldn't do. They kill and eat other animals, even of their own species. I think we would agree that it is wrong to kill and eat other humans. Many species devour their young. I think we can agree that that is taboo as well. Much of animal sex is not consential, so if we are to do as the animals, you are then advocating rape. Would you prefer that we also use secretions to mark our territory? The female praying mantis devours her mate after or even during sex. How's that for a precedent? In anthills, only the queen has the children and the other females are subjugated. I don't think I'd want to be a female in either case there. Monkeys may be homosexual, but they also like to throw their excrement at people. I think that's illegal in most states. Hmm...that wasn't as delicate as I had intended. Oh well. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6 |
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| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589 | LOL. First some Christians claim homosexuality is "unnatural". Then when homosexuality is indeed found to exist in nature and therefore is entirely natural, they argue that it is still bad, evil, yucky. Monkeys apparently aren't the only ones throwing excrement. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis |
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| | #8 (permalink) (top) |
| Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277 | None of you have actually responded to it. Stop me if I'm wrong: the assumption of the thread is that if animals do something, it is then natural and ok. I presented examples of animal behavior that is entirely natural but that is very much not ok. It seems like a logical counterpoint to me. We can't use the fact that animals do a thing to prove that it is right and good for us to do it. The only difference is that some people have attached an exception to homosexuality and they consider it to be an inviolable right without actually thinking about it. This viewpoint is inconsistent. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6 |
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| | #9 (permalink) (top) |
![]() Away Location: Scotland, Central Lowlands Posts: 3,325 | Homosexuality is not acceptable because it is a natural state; it is acceptable because it doesn't harm anyone. Nobody was arguing that because it is natural it is ok. The point of the thread was to refute the argument that homosexuality is in some way unnatural. |
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| | #10 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589 | Homosexuality is a naturally occurring variation in the human genome. For years it has been called a "crime against nature" in various statutes across the country. This designation is obviously absurd as homosexuality does indeed occur naturally in animals. phoenix_fire, your point seems little more than a reflection of your own anti-gay bias. Comparing homosexuality to cannibalism is ridiculous, offensive, and illogical, as is comparing it to any other range of animal behaviours. It is exactly as stupid as when Rick Santorum suggested that if gay marraige is allowed that people will start marrying their pets. Homosexuality is natural for humans as indeed it is for right whales. This does not imply that an acceptance of homosexuality will lead to ocean habitation, nor the eating of krill. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis |
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| Pure Energy Posts: 438 | As cannabalism, rape and murder ARE natural acts, and expected behaviours from humankind and animals alike... There are Laws against it. - Most illegal activities are "natural". We don't outlaw activities that are not pursued. Heartbeat, the only song you will not hear until it's gone. |
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| formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,209 | Quote:
The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant) | |
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| | #15 (permalink) (top) | |
| Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277 | Quote:
rick, you always like to assume bias on my part. I DO think homosexuality is wrong. But the only people that I would pressure about it are those who also call themselves Christian, as I would any other Christian who I see unrepentantly engaging in any other sin. I think homosexuality is wrong for non-Christians too, but my first concern wouldn't be that they're gay but that they're not Christian. I can't expect people to act like Christians who aren't. You haven't seen me debating on the marriage amendment threads or the civil union threads or anything else of that nature. Wonder why that is? Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6 | |
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| | #16 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589 | In this thread, you lump homosexuality with cannibalizism and feces throwing simians. Perhaps I "assume" bias because you post really bigotted statements? Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis Last edited by RickSp; Oct 14, 2006 at 09:47 am. |
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| | #17 (permalink) (top) |
| Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277 | Oh please. Like I said, YOU are the one making that connection. When you use the actions of animals as a justification for the actions of humans, YOU are the one that equates humans with animals. YOU have to face the consequences of making that argument. I make no such "bigotted statements", and it tweaks me off that you would accuse me of something like that. You didn't read the rest of the post at all, did you? You're so ready to jump down my throat. You've got the torches ready: you've already tried me in your mind as one of "those religious nuts" and you're ready to pass the sentence. You've decided already that you are higher minded and that, because I believe in something that you think is stupid, everything I say to you is immediately incorrect and inflammatory. I wonder very much who is the bigot in this case. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6 |
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| | #18 (permalink) (top) |
| 13.7B Light Years+ Location: 42 N, 83 W Posts: 1,018 | One of the points being missed by the christian(s) is that homosexuality has been linked to genetics. A gay man has no more "choice" in the matter of being attracted to another man as a straight guy has no choice but to be attracted to a female. Christians wrongfully assume that being gay is a choice, but its not. If you are only attracted to women, just try to think of sleeping with another man... you can't honestly do it. You can imagine it, but it really does nothing for you. You may even experiment with the idea, but you will eventually lean towards one way or the other. There are those who will be able to go both ways (bi-sexual) and again this is shown to be natural in the bonobo monkeys. This isn't harmful to the survival of the species (obviously since its been around at least since recorded history), so any equivocation to other natural acts that are harmful is irrelevent. On the same note, it is perfectly natural for a straight person to to reject advances made by a gay one, however, it isn't natural to place a moral judgement into the frey and they should be allowed the same and equal rights of other humans. God is superfluous, nuff said ![]() Life Made Easy, without a god Big Bang Misconceptions String Theory for the Layman |
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| | #19 (permalink) (top) | |
| 13.7B Light Years+ Location: 42 N, 83 W Posts: 1,018 | Quote:
God is superfluous, nuff said ![]() Life Made Easy, without a god Big Bang Misconceptions String Theory for the Layman | |
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| | #20 (permalink) (top) | |
| Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277 | Quote:
Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6 | |
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