Is Islam Really a Religion of Terror?

[Abdullah]

OK, since I neither have the time nor energy to chase down all of the anti-Islamic propoganda and polemics on this forum and respond to each and every allegation, I wanna see the proof that Islam promotes terror. Basically what I'm saying is bring forth all of your false accusations so I can refute them all, proving that Islam does NOT promote terror or violence. So lets see your distorted Qur'an and Hadeeth qoutes and your lies against the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم .
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[سورة الأنعام 108 | Surah Al-An'am Verse 108 (6:108)]
وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ

And abuse not those whom they call upon besides ALLAH, lest they, out of spite, abuse ALLAH in their ignorance....

[shrike]

Ok I will bite.
How about the command to kill jews.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

[The Architect]

I know that the Muslim faith dosent promote violence, in fact they promote peace, jihad isnt a war to convert non believiers but to defend the faith when they feel threatened. Its the Islamin extremeists that promotes violence and death to the west.

[Abdullah]

Shalom

Ok, lets analyze this Hadeeth or saying of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم :

Saheeh Muslim
Book 041, Number 6985:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

This Hadeeth is about the last hour and it falls under the category of war, now it is clear from Al-Qur'aan that war is only defensive:

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[ 39 - 40 سورة الحج | Surah Al-Hajj Verses 39-40 (22:39-40)]

أُذِنَ لِلَّذِينَ يُقَتَلُونَ بِأَنَّهُمْ ظُلِمُوا وَإِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى نَصْرِهِمْ لَقَدِيرٌذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِنْ دِيَرِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَنْ يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَمِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَتٌ وَمَسَجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا وَلَيَنصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنصُرُهُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ

Permission to take up arms is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged and ALLAH, indeed, has power to help them. - Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly, only because they said, `Our Lord is ALLAH.' And if ALLAH had not repelled some people by means of others, cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of ALLAH is oft remembered, would surely have been destroyed. And ALLAH will, surely, help him who helps HIM. ALLAH is, indeed, Powerful, Mighty -


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So this implies that the Jews started this conflict and attacked the Muslims, in no way does it imply that you should go out and kill Jews, this is just a future prophecy of war ( perhaps between Israel and Muslim nations?) . There exists no command for the wanton killing of Jews or any people EXCEPT in self-defense.

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[سورة الأعراف 159 | Surah Al-Araf Verse 159 (7:159)]
وَمِنْ قَوْمِ مُوسَى امَّةٌ يَهْدُونَ بِالْحَقِّ وَبِهِ يَعْدِلُونَ

And of the people of Moses there is a party who guide with truth and do justice therewith.


EDIT:

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم respect for the Jews:

Bukhari
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 399:
Narrated 'Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila:

Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts


Salaam,

Abdullah

[RickSp]

Some fanatics can use Islam to justify terrorism, just as other fanatics can use Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and Shintoism to justify terrorism and murder. Very few religions have not at one point or another been used as a justifaction to slaughter fellow human beings.

[shield772]

So when did the US run you out of your homes? Why are westeners targeted? How did we attack you?

[Mia]

The Quron does not say to attack the USA. How are you blaming that on the religion?

[Jack]

You've got a common issue here, Abdullah, with the christians. Both of you claim persecution brought on by not being understood by others. You can't deny that some members of your faith do espouse violence and have killed people in the name of that faith any more than christians can deny that Rev. Phelps and Falwell are both members of their faith. The very fact that your religions are internally inconsistent with themselves allow for these fringe elements to become the visable and identifiable representatives of your faiths. You shouldn't blame the rest of us for being aware of the obvious. Why worry about public perception when the radicals are not only ruining your reputations but endangering your lives as well?

[phoenix_fire]

At least in the case of my faith, Isher, internal inconsistency is not the problem. I'm sure there are some athiests you'd rather not be associated with.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: phoenix_fire At least in the case of my faith, Isher, internal inconsistency is not the problem. I'm sure there are some athiests you'd rather not be associated with.

Are you saying that christian inconsistencies are not the problem NOW? What "problem" are you talking about? You would be correct, there may be some atheists we'd rather not be associated with.... like atheists who are intollerant, racists, bigots and criminals who have no respect for humanity. I'm sure they exist, these are all defects in human nature. I just haven't met any personally. On the other hand, I have met all of the above who have belonged to one religious affiliation or another.

Abdullah: From my point of view, your Quran and Hadeeth has the same problems that the Christian/Judeo bible has. Some people will take the words literally and others ( the peace loving muslims) will take it more metaphorically. There are yet others who will pick and choose what verses they want to support their own agenda. People will take bits and pieces of the Quran and say... It says this, it must be true.... They will take this out of context.

The American media will show hundreds (if not thousands) of extremists dancing in the streets and shouting Allah Akkbar (sp?) when they take out some American soldiers and this leads to an overall view (by Americans) that the entire religion is screwed up. I (personally) realize that these are extremists and should not be considered the prime example of ALL muslims. The problem is, this occurs in your world as well. Some muslims will see a couple of pictures of American solders abuseing arab prisoners and condem ALL Americans. This happens on both sides. Again from my point of view, I do see there are more extremists on your side than on the American side. We have our Westboro Baptists who hate (with a passion) gay people and abortion clinic doctors and we have misguided christians who will blow up abortion clinics, yet support the death penalty. But their numbers do not seem to be as large as Islamic extremists. The Islamic extremists are robbing your religion and we don't see a lot of Moderates doing anything about it. Our country needs to do a better job of making people understand that not ALL muslims are terrorist.

[shrike]

Quote by: Abdullah Shalom Ok, lets analyze this Hadeeth or saying of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم : Saheeh Muslim Book 041, Number 6985: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. This Hadeeth is about the last hour and it falls under the category of war, now it is clear from Al-Qur'aan that war is only defensive:

Nowhere in Hadith its stated the war is defensive Its stated as a condition unless Muslim fight Jews i.e. attack them the final hour would not come. Anyway even if its a defensive as you claim, its still state to wage genocide and its not allowed even in defensive wars.

[Fonceai]

@Abdullah

In your defense, American Christianity has its extremists.

It's called the KKK.

Other religions also have their extremists.

Through that logic, and also due to personal observation, I know that Islam (the religion) does not promote terror.

[shrike]

@Abdullah In your defense, American Christianity has its extremists. It's called the KKK. Other religions also have their extremists. Through that logic, and also due to personal observation, I know that Islam (the religion) does not promote terror.

Agreed but the Muslims are most active and their have wider support that any other extremist religion group.

[Fonceai]

Unfortunately, I can't find statistics about the numbers of how many Muslims are in extremist groups and how many Chrisitians are in extremist groups.

One thing I did find is that the Islamic groups are more organized.

Christian terrorism is usually an act of terrorism by one person citing Christian principles as their rationale.

Same with Muslim terrorists.

But that doesn't mean that Christianity, or Islam, endorses terror.

That's the point I was making.

[shield772]

Well lets see, when the KKK does something horific or any Christian extremist group or individual, do you see almost complete agreement and dancing in the streets from other christians no you see condemnation, when Islamic terrorists do something horific you see support if not down right joy from an overwhelming majority of muslim groups and countries. That to me is a glaring difference, we (Christians) condemn the irrational and violent among us.

[Matt W]

Sooo....the Christians praising the tsunami as an 'Act of God' were horrified? The Christians who said 9/11 was a judgement on America for becoming godless, atheist etc were peaceloving?

Sorry sheild772, but your 'majority' stance is BS. Have you ever gone and looked at reactions in Muslim countries or groups beyond waht you're shown on American media? I doubt it. :rolleyes:

[shield772]

Quote by: Matt W Sooo....the Christians praising the tsunami as an 'Act of God' were horrified? The Christians who said 9/11 was a judgement on America for becoming godless, atheist etc were peaceloving? Sorry sheild772, but your 'majority' stance is BS. Have you ever gone and looked at reactions in Muslim countries or groups beyond waht you're shown on American media? I doubt it. :rolleyes:

all weather IS an act of god, but as a whole we were not praising god for having killed anyone, I believe you are speaking of specific individuals who do speak for large christian groups but that any true christian tries to distance themselves from. Stop defending our enemies, they would kill you as soon as look at you, we are infidels plain and simple and deserve only death.

[Matt W]

Quote by: sheild772 I believe you are speaking of specific individuals who do speak for large christian groups but that any true christian tries to distance themselves from

And exactly the same could be said about Islam. Go read some Muslim news sources. I'm sure you'd be surprised.

Quote by: shield772 Stop defending our enemies, they would kill you as soon as look at you, we are infidels plain and simple and deserve only death.

Ridiculous. So. My Indonesian friends of the family, including the servants who helped raise my blonde, blue-eyed sister, would have rather killed us? Our friends from Dubai, who have known my father for over 30 years, haven't killed him when he's visited simply because of lack of opportunity? My colleague of Pakistani origin is seeking to slaughter me in my sleep? That Turkish guy in the kebab shop would rather lay about him with a big knife than talk crap on a Saturday night? Riiiiiight. :rolleyes:

You're being hysterical and stereotyping. I suggest you get a grip.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: ItsDarts Are you saying that christian inconsistencies are not the problem NOW? What "problem" are you talking about? You would be correct, there may be some atheists we'd rather not be associated with.... like atheists who are intollerant, racists, bigots and criminals who have no respect for humanity. I'm sure they exist, these are all defects in human nature. I just haven't met any personally. On the other hand, I have met all of the above who have belonged to one religious affiliation or another. Abdullah: From my point of view, your Quran and Hadeeth has the same problems that the Christian/Judeo bible has. Some people will take the words literally and others ( the peace loving muslims) will take it more metaphorically. There are yet others who will pick and choose what verses they want to support their own agenda. People will take bits and pieces of the Quran and say... It says this, it must be true.... They will take this out of context. The American media will show hundreds (if not thousands) of extremists dancing in the streets and shouting Allah Akkbar (sp?) when they take out some American soldiers and this leads to an overall view (by Americans) that the entire religion is screwed up. I (personally) realize that these are extremists and should not be considered the prime example of ALL muslims. The problem is, this occurs in your world as well. Some muslims will see a couple of pictures of American solders abuseing arab prisoners and condem ALL Americans. This happens on both sides. Again from my point of view, I do see there are more extremists on your side than on the American side. We have our Westboro Baptists who hate (with a passion) gay people and abortion clinic doctors and we have misguided christians who will blow up abortion clinics, yet support the death penalty. But their numbers do not seem to be as large as Islamic extremists. The Islamic extremists are robbing your religion and we don't see a lot of Moderates doing anything about it. Our country needs to do a better job of making people understand that not ALL muslims are terrorist.

Isher seemed to be implying that the faith was flawed and that that explained people doing inconsistent things. I simply held that it was the nature of people, not the faith, that brings out the weirdos, citing that even in the belief system Isher believes to be correct, there are those that he would not associate with or care to be identified with.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: shield772 all weather IS an act of god, but as a whole we were not praising god for having killed anyone,

If weather is an act of your god, then he can not be omnibenevolent. His "acts" have now become muderous. He killed a quarter million people i nthe Tsunami, he kills thousands each year in tonados and earth quakes. These acts are not "all loving" no matter how you try to spin it. This is not justified acts of god because no justification has been given by this god.

I believe you are speaking of specific individuals who do speak for large christian groups but that any true christian tries to distance themselves from.

I'm guessing that many "True Christians" are going to be distancing themselves from you after that last comment.

Stop defending our enemies, they would kill you as soon as look at you, we are infidels plain and simple and deserve only death.

And you are being intolerant and are not turning the other cheek as Jesus would do. You are assuming that ALL muslims are our enemy and you are not correct. You, sir, are a christian extremist.