Is Islam Really a Religion of Terror?

[1slam]

:) ItsDart I respect your views absolutely :) , if its possible to speak on msn that would be great!! Possibly add me? Saif_altimimi@hotmail.com But honestly ive read many religious Scriptures and almost every scripture preaches messages which are pretty gruesome even the bible. The thing is Christians perform selective worship, they worship the parts of the bible the church tells them to. The thing is, the bible has been changed so many times ad many of the errors have been "fixed" therefore you don't hear of these verses within the bible because they are so minimized. The religion of Islam is built upon the principle of peace and the quranic ayas always have background towards them, like when god tells us to fight against the wrongdoers that doesn't mean kill all kufar, God was revealing that verse to muhammed during the time of a war with mecca because the meccans were afraid Islam would spread! So when the meccans were about to attack the Muslims Allah revealed the verse to tell them to fight against those who fight against you! The problem is many christians fail to read the background on each aya or EVEN fail to read the entire chapter because the quran is a book in which the chapters are linked together into 1 topic. Its like reading a randoms segment of a page in a book, duhh obviously you wont understand the point if u havn't read the book! But ItsDart Islam is the total submission to Gods one and only true will, surrendering yourself to God. I hope ive explained alot and i look forward to speaking with you on msn !

[Georgia]

Debate rages over women and Sharia

Stoning for adultery and the introduction of vice and virtue squads were hallmarks of Afghanistan's Taleban regime. Now the debate over Islamic law is raging globally, among Muslim women's groups alarmed by cases in Nigeria and Pakistan. "I believe in the justice of God. So if justice is not done to me here on earth it will be done in the hereafter," says Amina Lawal. Ms Lawal, divorced mother-of-three, retains a strong faith in her Islamic religion, even though she has become what many see as a victim of Islamic law. She was sentenced to death in March 2002 by a Sharia court in northern Nigeria. Her crime was getting pregnant out of wedlock. The man has not been charged. But she is now appealing against being buried up to her neck and stoned to death. Last week, her second appeal against the sentence was adjourned. It will be heard at a later date. Her case has provoked international outcry and cast the spotlight on what many see as the barbaric and discriminatory penal codes in Islamic law. Or the interpretation of Islamic law. There are four schools of Islamic law and the one in northern Nigeria - the Maliki one - is particularly strict. Dawud Noibi, a Nigerian scholar of Islamic law, says: "The provisions of the law are such that rather than being punitive, it is a deterrent, it's meant to be a deterrent." He adds that the law encourages repentance which will attract forgiveness from God. But human rights groups say that is not how it is being implemented in northern Nigeria. At the same time they fear that the government of North-West Frontier Province in Pakistan, which is implementing Sharia, will violate the rights of women. Are there real grounds for concern? According to a human rights report in Pakistan, of 1,800 women in jail, 80% are there for so-called "huddud" offences. Huddud is the part of Islamic law dealing with punishments for crimes such as "illegal sex" - or sex outside marriage. There is no equivalent number of men in jail for the same offences, which raises the question: who are these women having sex with? But is Islamic law inherently mysogynistic? No, it is the men who interpret it, say a growing number of Islamic women's networks, which are hitting back at those they say are abusing the law for their own political ends. The law, which is regarded as sacred, is based on the Koran and the traditions of the Prophet. It does outlaw "zina" or illegal sex, but to prove such sex has taken place is, according to the classical texts, almost impossible. It requires four witnesses - often interpreted to mean four male witnesses - to the sexual act. So that in practice should mean that few end up in court for such an offence. Lawal's case is being watched closely across the world

Buried up to her neck and stoned to death?
80% of jailed women are there for so-called "huddud" offences? Those must be the lucky ones.
Four male witnesses required to prove rape, and she gets 80 lashes if she is unable to prove the rape?

Peace, brother.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: 1slam :) ItsDart I respect your views absolutely :) , if its possible to speak on msn that would be great!! Possibly add me? Saif_altimimi@hotmail.com But honestly ive read many religious Scriptures and almost every scripture preaches messages which are pretty gruesome even the bible. The thing is Christians perform selective worship, they worship the parts of the bible the church tells them to. The thing is, the bible has been changed so many times ad many of the errors have been "fixed" therefore you don't hear of these verses within the bible because they are so minimized. The religion of Islam is built upon the principle of peace and the quranic ayas always have background towards them, like when god tells us to fight against the wrongdoers that doesn't mean kill all kufar, God was revealing that verse to muhammed during the time of a war with mecca because the meccans were afraid Islam would spread! So when the meccans were about to attack the Muslims Allah revealed the verse to tell them to fight against those who fight against you! The problem is many christians fail to read the background on each aya or EVEN fail to read the entire chapter because the quran is a book in which the chapters are linked together into 1 topic. Its like reading a randoms segment of a page in a book, duhh obviously you wont understand the point if u havn't read the book! But ItsDart Islam is the total submission to Gods one and only true will, surrendering yourself to God. I hope ive explained alot and i look forward to speaking with you on msn !

I don't speak on MSN or other chat programs, I barely find enough time to do the forums. However, now that we agree that people of all faiths will pick and choose verses to suit their own needs and beliefs, would you agree that groups like the Taliban and Al Queda do the exact same thing? Aren't these groups picking and choosing verses to suit their own agenda? Or are they following the Quran correctly when they attack America on our own soil? Is there justification for them to attack us here or in London or Bali or other places? I can understand if they attack us while we're on their soil to some extent but when we went into Iraq, we were there to help the Iraqis, not disrupt Islam, so I see attacks on us there to be wrong as well.

Your thoughts?

[1slam]

o yes but of course, they are having selective worship(IFF the taliban or alqaeda actually existed) but its not on thd divine level. What I mean by this is, every Muslim agrees the quran is 100% correct 100% unchanged 100% pure the problem is there are many hadiths which which they twist. A Hadith is like the autobiography of the prophet written by man and is not considered divine. We have certain hadiths which are outside the circle of divinity which don't contradict the quran. Thats why you see tons of non-muslims making up blatant lies and showing these "hadiths" which they made themselves and frankly are not divine at all. If the taliban and alqaeda actually existed and If the US actually wants to rid the world of there evil then I would say they are not and cant be muslims, but again we as Muslims have the right to fight against those who fight against us in self defense BUT with restrictions as the quran dictates NOT to murder civilians NOT to murder animals NOT to murder anything innocent. I believe, that any hadith which contradicts the quran is wrong, and I follow the Quran justly as every muslim should. This is the true path of peace

please visit my website at The Truth About Life | An invitation to the nation of islam!

[jamesbdunn]

The original stone tablets of the Ten Commandments is the ONLY legitimate Words of God. All texts written by man since then are exactly what the Ten Commandments said they would be, vial.

You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.

So what happens, people write for themselves the Bible, Quran, and a variety of other texts to idolize. Leading people to believe that they will be forgiven for doing vial acts against the Ten Commandments.

In EVERY publication since the stone tablets, PEOPLE have sought to gain reverence by other people. ALL Priests, Rabis, Prophets, Preachers, and other persons and texts that admonish the Lord and God in service of their own desires, are in FACT purveyors of works AGAINST the original stone tablets. A person can neither add to nor subtract from the words of the stone tablets without deviating from the words of God. The stone tablets are the basis for the most popular religions, and are the ONLY words directly transcribed by GOD. It can NOT be interpretated by any person, it can only be read by each person.

Nowhere in the stone tablets does it infer that ANY person shall listen to any other person for guidance. NO PERSON shall interpret the stone tablets for another person. To do so is to speak in the LORDS name.

The Ten Commandments specifically states that NO PERSON shall be allowed to speak in the Lords name. So ALL subsequent prophets are deviants.

I don't think the Quran is any better or worse than the Christian, Jewish, .... or any of the other deviant publications. Deviant as in they have deviated from the original writings of Gods words.

Quote by: Abdullah OK, since I neither have the time nor energy to chase down all of the anti-Islamic propoganda and polemics on this forum and respond to each and every allegation, I wanna see the proof that Islam promotes terror. Basically what I'm saying is bring forth all of your false accusations so I can refute them all, proving that Islam does NOT promote terror or violence. So lets see your distorted Qur'an and Hadeeth qoutes and your lies against the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم . ____________________________________________ [سورة الأنعام 108 | Surah Al-An'am Verse 108 (6:108)] وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ And abuse not those whom they call upon besides ALLAH, lest they, out of spite, abuse ALLAH in their ignorance....

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: jamesbdunn The original stone tablets of the Ten Commandments is the ONLY legitimate Words of God. All texts written by man since then are exactly what the Ten Commandments said they would be, vial. You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God. So what happens, people write for themselves the Bible, Quran, and a variety of other texts to idolize. Leading people to believe that they will be forgiven for doing vial acts against the Ten Commandments. In EVERY publication since the stone tablets, PEOPLE have sought to gain reverence by other people. ALL Priests, Rabis, Prophets, Preachers, and other persons and texts that admonish the Lord and God in service of their own desires, are in FACT purveyors of works AGAINST the original stone tablets. A person can neither add to nor subtract from the words of the stone tablets without deviating from the words of God. The stone tablets are the basis for the most popular religions, and are the ONLY words directly transcribed by GOD. It can NOT be interpretated by any person, it can only be read by each person. Nowhere in the stone tablets does it infer that ANY person shall listen to any other person for guidance. NO PERSON shall interpret the stone tablets for another person. To do so is to speak in the LORDS name. The Ten Commandments specifically states that NO PERSON shall be allowed to speak in the Lords name. So ALL subsequent prophets are deviants. I don't think the Quran is any better or worse than the Christian, Jewish, .... or any of the other deviant publications. Deviant as in they have deviated from the original writings of Gods words.

You posted this pretty much word for word in the Bible in Public schools thread and I replied there. The one thing I forgot to ask is.... what version of the 10 commandments are you talking about? The Jewish Version? Islamic Version? Protestant version or the Catholic Version? Not that it matters because you don't have the originals to back up any of your claims, but I thought it might be interesting to see what version you are talking about and what makes you so sure that your version is the correct version?

[jamesbdunn]

Quote by: ItsDarts You posted this pretty much word for word in the Bible in Public schools thread and I replied there. The one thing I forgot to ask is.... what version of the 10 commandments are you talking about? The Jewish Version? Islamic Version? Protestant version or the Catholic Version? Not that it matters because you don't have the originals to back up any of your claims, but I thought it might be interesting to see what version you are talking about and what makes you so sure that your version is the correct version?

The three different versions you are talking about vary a bit. I think the First and second commandments take the biggest hits. But regardless, regarding evidence based proof of existence, religion falls short of providing much in the way of statistical evidence. All I can do is throw out what I think doesn't work and keep what I think does work.

You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.

As my opinion is stated elsewhere, the best you can do is use the information available to you to your best benefit.

[shunyadragon]

Quote by: Abdullah OK, since I neither have the time nor energy to chase down all of the anti-Islamic propoganda and polemics on this forum and respond to each and every allegation, I wanna see the proof that Islam promotes terror. Basically what I'm saying is bring forth all of your false accusations so I can refute them all, proving that Islam does NOT promote terror or violence. So lets see your distorted Qur'an and Hadeeth qoutes and your lies against the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم . ____________________________________________ [سورة الأنعام 108 | Surah Al-An'am Verse 108 (6:108)] وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ فَيَسُبُّواْ اللّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ And abuse not those whom they call upon besides ALLAH, lest they, out of spite, abuse ALLAH in their ignorance....

The problem with Islam is similar to other ancient religions like Judaism and Christianity in that they relate to an ancient time and people and have difficulty relating to today's world and other religions. In the old world these ancient religions gave birth to great spiritual civilizations and a peace within their own world, but today the offer little or no benifit ti humanity, because they are divided by skisms, violance and oppresion.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: jamesbdunn The three different versions you are talking about vary a bit. I think the First and second commandments take the biggest hits. But regardless, regarding evidence based proof of existence, religion falls short of providing much in the way of statistical evidence. All I can do is throw out what I think doesn't work and keep what I think does work.

There are FOUR versions, I think you may have overlooked the Islamic version. But anyway, what version was written in stone? Isn't THAT the version you should follow? You appear to "worship" these tablets since you've posted this rant in 4 or 5 threads now. You have made the tablets your idol.

You shall have no other gods before Me & You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.

So stop worshiping the tablets that don't even exist.

As my opinion is stated elsewhere, the best you can do is use the information available to you to your best benefit.

All religions do this. You are no different. Taking bits and pieces to suit your own needs and desires.

What do you do on the Sabbath? Is your Sabbath on Friday, Saturday or Sunday? How do you know which day is the Sabbath?

[pikatore]

It's funny how you have gone so silent since your OP, abdullah, and pull your head out of the sand just once to declare someone's opinion 'propaganda', when surrounding that single comment is a whole library of reason staring you in the face. maybe you should redeem yourself by making a decent answer to one of the responses so painstakingly typed out for you.

[Athena]

Like Christians, Muslims also have a history to answer for, and unfortunately for Muslims, many Muslims are still living in a violent and brutal past.

Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia An estimate of the number of people killed, based on the Muslim chronicles and demographic calculations, was done by K.S. Lal in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India, who claimed that between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million. His work has come under criticism by historians such as Simon Digby (School of Oriental and African Studies) and Irfan Habib for its agenda and lack of accurate data in pre-census times. Lal has responded to these criticisms in later works. Historians such as Will Durant contend that Islam spread through violence. [3][4] Sir Jadunath Sarkar contends that that several Muslim invaders were waging a systematic jihad against Hindus in India to the effect that "Every device short of massacre in cold blood was resorted to in order to convert heathen subjects." [5] In particular the records kept by al-Utbi, Mahmud al-Ghazni's secretary, in the Tarikh-i-Yamini document several episodes of bloody military campaigns. Hindus who converted to Islam however were not completely immune to persecution due to the Muslim Caste System in India established by Ziauddin al-Barani in the Fatawa-i Jahandari. [6], where they were regarded as an "Ajlaf" caste and subjected to discrimination by the "Ashraf" castes[7] The disputers of the "Conversion by the Sword Theory" point to the presence of the strong Muslim communities found in Southern India, modern day Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Western Burma, Indonesia and Philippines coupled with the distinctive lack of equivalent Muslim communities around the heartland of historical Muslim Empires in the Indian Sub-Continent as refutation to the Conversion by Sword Theory. The legacy of Muslim conquest of South Asia is a hotly debated issue even today. Different population estimates by economic historian Angus Maddison[8] and by Jean-Noël Biraben[9] also show that India's population did not decrease between 1000 and 1500, but in fact increased by about 35 million during that time(dubious; discuss) . Not all Muslim invaders were simply raiders. Later rulers fought on to win kingdoms and stayed to create new ruling dynasties. The practices of these new rulers and their subsequent heirs (some of whom were borne of Hindu wives) varied considerably. While some were uniformly hated, others developed a popular following. According to the memoirs of Ibn Batuta who travelled through Delhi in the 14th century, one of the previous sultans had been especially brutal and was deeply hated by Delhi's population. His memoirs also indicate that Muslims from the Arab world, from Persia and Turkey were often favored with important posts at the royal courts suggesting that locals may have played a somewhat subordinate role in the Delhi administration. The term "Turk" was commonly used to refer to their higher social status. S.A.A. Rizvi (The Wonder That Was India - II), however points to Muhammad bin Tughlaq as not only encouraging locals but promoting artisan groups such as cooks, barbers and gardeners to high administrative posts. In his reign, it is likely that conversions to Islam took place as a means of seeking greater social mobility and improved social standing.[10]

If we argue religion disregarding history and culture and environment, we will not come to truth.

[jamesbdunn]

Quote by: ItsDarts There are FOUR versions, I think you may have overlooked the Islamic version. But anyway, what version was written in stone? Isn't THAT the version you should follow? You appear to "worship" these tablets since you've posted this rant in 4 or 5 threads now. You have made the tablets your idol. So stop worshiping the tablets that don't even exist.

You choose to believe you exist based upon your perceptions. That is not a proof. No proofs exist that are not confined to a very narrow point of view.

As for evidence, you yourself said that at least 4 religious teachings site the Ten Commandments as having a historical basis. Yet these same writings contradict one another on many issues. When does a citing obtain statistical significance?

All religions do this. You are no different. Taking bits and pieces to suit your own needs and desires. What do you do on the Sabbath? Is your Sabbath on Friday, Saturday or Sunday? How do you know which day is the Sabbath?

You take bits and pieces to suit your own needs and desires. Everyone does, it is a basic problem with being human. Our limited brains and sensory perceptions are not developed enough to take into consideration all aspects surrounding a concept. Even something as simple as 1 + 1 = 2. This if false as often as it is true. But we use this information to help ourselves as best we can.

I celebrate only one Sabbath day, the day when the tablets came into existence. Since the actual day can only be guessed at, I think of the Ten Commandments in reflection throughout my life.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: pikatore It's funny how you have gone so silent since your OP, abdullah, and pull your head out of the sand just once to declare someone's opinion 'propaganda', when surrounding that single comment is a whole library of reason staring you in the face. maybe you should redeem yourself by making a decent answer to one of the responses so painstakingly typed out for you.

what specifically are you talking about?
show me the hadith section and the quote

He wont address questions like "Whys the arabs be hitting israel durr!?"

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: jamesbdunn You choose to believe you exist based upon your perceptions. That is not a proof. No proofs exist that are not confined to a very narrow point of view.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I don't "choose to believe" I exist, I KNOW I exist. This is proof in my reality. My reality is for the most part the same reality that everyone exists in. If you met me, you'd KNOW ItsDarts exists.

As for evidence, you yourself said that at least 4 religious teachings site the Ten Commandments as having a historical basis. Yet these same writings contradict one another on many issues. When does a citing obtain statistical significance?

Never. Remember when the whole world thought the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth? Statistically, everyone was wrong. Why would I think 4 citings of a story about fire writing in tablets coming from some deity 3500 years ago be true? Remember, only one person supposedly saw these tablets being made. Oddly enough it took 40 days for moses to deliver these tablets. Hmmmm do you think he could have written them himself? Duh!

If I gave you a couple of tablets with writing on them and I told you that God did this for me to give to you, would you believe me? Why not?

You take bits and pieces to suit your own needs and desires. Everyone does, it is a basic problem with being human. Our limited brains and sensory perceptions are not developed enough to take into consideration all aspects surrounding a concept. Even something as simple as 1 + 1 = 2. This if false as often as it is true. But we use this information to help ourselves as best we can.

when is 1+1 NOT equal 2?

I celebrate only one Sabbath day, the day when the tablets came into existence. Since the actual day can only be guessed at, I think of the Ten Commandments in reflection throughout my life.

What did humanity do before the 10C's? .... here's a hint... they followed these basic rules of morality before someone ever claimed to have gotten them from a god.

[ByaKya]

Quote by: Athena Like Christians, Muslims also have a history to answer for, and unfortunately for Muslims, many Muslims are still living in a violent and brutal past. .

the article, shows one historians assertion of 80 million hindus killed by islamics.

The mere fact that NO ONE anywhere, in ANY history book ANYWHERE backs this up, shows us enough that this guy is off the wall.
But thanks for playing

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: ByaKya the article, shows one historians assertion of 80 million hindus killed by islamics. The mere fact that NO ONE anywhere, in ANY history book ANYWHERE backs this up, shows us enough that this guy is off the wall. But thanks for playing

The article is a Wikipedia article, it is the works of many people. Do a google search on "Islamic Conquests" and you will find many articles on this subject. This doesn't mean that Islamists killed 80 Million hindus all at once, this is after centuries of fighting. Pakistan USE to be a Hindu nation, now it's mostly Islamic. Islam has done exactly what Chrisitianity has done, spread its self through force and charity towards the ignorant. It's just another in a long line of tools used to control the Sheople.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: ItsDarts The article is a Wikipedia article, it is the works of many people. Do a google search on "Islamic Conquests" and you will find many articles on this subject. This doesn't mean that Islamists killed 80 Million hindus all at once, this is after centuries of fighting. Pakistan USE to be a Hindu nation, now it's mostly Islamic. Islam has done exactly what Chrisitianity has done, spread its self through force and charity towards the ignorant. It's just another in a long line of tools used to control the Sheople.

Who is to blame converts or the converters???????

[Fonceai]

Precisely.

You can't blame the leadership for the blinded-by-faith followers.

You blame for the followers for allowing themselves to be blinded by faith.

[Kuldeep]

Exactly that is my opinion as well!!!

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: Kuldeep Who is to blame converts or the converters???????

You blame the followers? Interesting. It's one thing if the converts were converted through a rational thought process. i.e. if somehow Islam makes more sense or is more rational than say Hinduism. Since over the centuries, 80 million have DIED, it would seem that the ones who DID convert, did so to save their own lives and the lives of their family. How can you blame the converts? Nonsense!!!!!!