Cultivating your will

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Chaos Eating french toast at IHOP on Saturday.

What are your perceived advantages and disadvantages of eating French toast?

Quote by: Chaos Well, some people have very bad habits. Do think that Smokers are unaware of the terrible consequences of their actions? And yet, they continue to smoke.

Because they think smoking is worth the health risks. Why else would they do it?

Quote by: Chaos Accept it, in the sense of accepting is exists, right? Not accept it, in the sense of going ahead and giving in to such desires.

Accepting that it is a part of yourself, whether you act on it or not. If it is harmful, don’t act on it.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Bacon What are your perceived advantages and disadvantages of eating French toast?

Short term advantage - it tastes yummy. Long term disadvantage - I need to keep my weight and blood pressure down.

But, I did not make the conscious choice that it was worth it for the benefit of the taste. Not at all. What I did was push the thought of the consequences out of my mind, and plunge ahead because I was tempted.


Hmmm...

Are you saying that I would not have done so, had I not pushed that thought out of my mind.

Thus, it is not just that one needs to weigh out the good and bad side. Rather, one needs to weigh it out and deliberately maintain awareness of the pros and cons.

Hmmm...

Useful - thank you.

Because they think smoking is worth the health risks. Why else would they do it?

They do not, intellectually, think it is worth the health risks. Instead, they are driven by their craving for nicotine. It is usually not a conscious well thought out decision.

Which, again, illustrates your original point.

Yes, very good.

[The Bacon Guy]

Yep, you've pretty much got it. I don't think we, as humans, can always objectively weigh up the pros and cons of every situation and foresee every possible consequence, but I think it's always best to try to do so as far is it is possible and practical.

On a side note, do you eat French toast as a sweet or a savoury dish?

[Captain Chaos]

Doused in butter and syrup...

But, like, I appear to be genetically prone to high cholesterol and high blood pressure (thanks Mom). So, I need to not eat crap like that - at least, not very often.

[Mia]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Because they think smoking is worth the health risks. Why else would they do it?

Because we are in denial. We believe we are going to quit soon, and that we're quitting soon enough for our bodies to repair.

[Mia]

On will: you make a decision and you stick to it, day in and day out, regardless of feelings about it.

Most of us didn't look forward to class everyday but went anyway. We don't want to go to work everyday but do anyway.

[Captain Chaos]

Do you smoke Mia? If so, I would like to ask you a few questions about the decision making process involved. Would you mind?

[Kamehameha34]

Forgive me if I go off-track:

People never do anything that they do not want to do. They may be forced to pick an option that has negative consequences, but being forced into something merely means that someone has added negative consequences to not choosing favorable toward the aforementioned "forcers".
That being said, let me define "will".
Will is valuing a long-term success over a short-term success, or long-term well-being over instant gratification. Let me give an example:

You see a slice of cake in the fridge. You have 2 options.
1. You can eat it.
2. You can leave it.

Which one would require will-power?

Obviously the second one. Nutritional health is long-term well-being. This is a hard decision to make, for some, because it is their present self that is making the decision, and their present self wouldn't be affected by not taking the path of instant-gratification.

So that is will. You can't "practice" will, or "cultivate" it, you just have to use it.

[Captain Chaos]

I disagree. If someone fails to make the right decision to 'just do it' there must be a reason. Some people never succeed in overcoming their addictions.

It is like telling someone to learn to swim by jumping in the water and swimming. The whole point is to learn how to overcome failings of will.

Also, sometimes we might want to cultivate the will towards a specific direction. Learning to appreciate the act of exercise, for example, so that it is more desireable to do so.

[xyzer]

My only contribution is that "change comes from within"! You are your own motivator. If you feel strongly enough to want to change..just do it without any outside aid or encouragement. After all the satisfaction and success are only yours.

An example is smoking. Many people go the others for help, use certain commercial aids and the like. In my case I just suddenl realized how expensive and stupid the habit was. I didn't telI or consult with anybody I quit immediately and never looked back.

[Kamehameha34]

Of course there is a reason. Their will isn't strong enough.

I think you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear enough.

You can't "practice" will. All you can do is make the decision as easy as possible. After that, it is still up to your will.

And your will is a tool. It can not be "cultivated" towards anything, in the same way a hammer can not be cultivated to pull a nail out. Whether you can pull the nail out depends on two things:

1. If you want the nail pulled out
2. If the hammer is strong enough

[Kamehameha34]

Take xyzer as an example.

He did not cultivate his will to stop smoking, he just did it. He made the decision easier by looking at the negative effects of continuation of his habit, but he was the one who made the decision.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Hawaian King Dude And your will is a tool. It can not be "cultivated" towards anything, in the same way a hammer can not be cultivated to pull a nail out. Whether you can pull the nail out depends on two things: 1. If you want the nail pulled out 2. If the hammer is strong enough

A hammer can be strengthened. You will can be strengthened, through practice, and through thinking your thoughts in the right direction. Also, your desire for a particular thing can be strengthened, thus raising your will in that direction.

I do not consider will to be the same thing as will power.

It would appear, however, that both definitions are used:

Quote by: dictionary.com will2  /wɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wil] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, willed, will‧ing. –noun 1. the faculty of conscious and especially of deliberate action; the power of control the mind has over its own actions: the freedom of the will. 2. power of choosing one's own actions: to have a strong or a weak will. 3. the act or process of using or asserting one's choice; volition: My hands are obedient to my will. 4. wish or desire: to submit against one's will. 5. purpose or determination, often hearty or stubborn determination; willfulness: to have the will to succeed. 6. the wish or purpose as carried out, or to be carried out: to work one's will. 7. disposition, whether good or ill, toward another. 8. Law. a. a legal declaration of a person's wishes as to the disposition of his or her property or estate after death, usually written and signed by the testator and attested by witnesses. b. the document containing such a declaration. –verb (used with object) 9. to decide, bring about, or attempt to effect or bring about by an act of the will: He can walk if he wills it. 10. to purpose, determine on, or elect, by an act of will: If he wills success, he can find it. 11. to give or dispose of (property) by a will or testament; bequeath or devise. 12. to influence by exerting will power: She was willed to walk the tightrope by the hypnotist. –verb (used without object) 13. to exercise the will: To will is not enough, one must do. 14. to decide or determine: Others debate, but the king wills. —Idiom15. at will, a. at one's discretion or pleasure; as one desires: to wander at will through the countryside. b. at one's disposal or command. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME will(e), OE will(a); c. D wil, G Wille, ON vili, Goth wilja; (v.) ME willen, OE willian to wish, desire, deriv. of the n.; akin to will1]

I guess I am interested both in cultivating desires, and cultivating a heightened or strengthened state of will power.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Take xyzer as an example. He did not cultivate his will to stop smoking, he just did it. He made the decision easier by looking at the negative effects of continuation of his habit, but he was the one who made the decision.

But not everyone succeeds at just doing it.

There must some process to make such efforts more successful.

I think what Bacon and I discussed might be very helpful in that area.

[Kamehameha34]

Don't get into logistics. You have a hammer, and you either have a strong enough desire to remove the nail or you don't.

Your will can be strengthened, but you can not strengthen it. It strengthens with every ordeal that tests it.

[Kamehameha34]

And not everyone succeeds in a perfect system.

[xyzer]

Yep!

There must some process to make such efforts more successful.

You make a decision and then have the "will power" to act on it. Then don't look back! Stick with it..thats the hardest part!

[Kamehameha34]

Want to know why people fail?

Their hammer just isn't strong enough. They can go through experiences in their lives that would make the decision easier, but willpower is all about making decisions that are hard.

[Mia]

Quote by: Captain Chaos Do you smoke Mia? If so, I would like to ask you a few questions about the decision making process involved. Would you mind?

Go ahead

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Kamehameha34 Don't get into logistics. You have a hammer, and you either have a strong enough desire to remove the nail or you don't. Your will can be strengthened, but you can not strengthen it. It strengthens with every ordeal that tests it.

But you can choose to put yourself into situation where your will is forced to grow. Also, we are talking about the decision making process. I believe we can consciously alter our decision making process, thus improving our will.