Primer on Islamic "Anger" Towards the West

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry True that suicide bombing isn't a Zionist policy. However you will find a rather extreme view of those outside Judaism if you look into their religious documents. There are even genocidal events lauded in the Bible. How is this different from the Muslim death cult?

Searching on more holocaust denial sites I see PH?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: GHook93 Searching on more holocaust denial sites I see PH?

Uhh...any evidence for your unwarranted allegations?

[shrike]

However you will find a rather extreme view of those outside Judaism if you look into their religious documents.

You could find such stuff almost in any religion .Especially if its holly book was written 3000 years ago.
I think it was pretty progressive for that time. For example a rest day ,rightful judgment, giving to the poor. Of course it has small relevance today.

There are even genocidal events lauded in the Bible. How is this different from the Muslim death cult?

The problem that it’s implemented. I don't claim that Islam in entirely evil every religion can be interpreted in various ways. We see its in Christianity, Hinduism and any other major religion probably Judaism had to some violent periods but it mostly in the distant past I think

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike Judaism had to some violent periods but it mostly in the distant past I think

True that today's assaults on on the enemies of the Zionists are driven not by religion, but by secular hate...

[shrike]

True that today's assaults on on the enemies of the Zionists are driven not by religion, but by secular hate...

Yes I know according to you Jews don't deserve a state.I happy that you opinion is a minority.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shrike Yes I know according to you Jews don't deserve a state.I happy that you opinion is a minority.

See, my problem with you Zionists isn't our opposition. It's that you are so deadly. I have no doubt you would kill me for my opinions if you could locate me...

[arielmessenger]

in the last 200 years Before Israel was was established?

Like it or not, Israel is the focus of Arab Muslim hatred of the U.S. and the West in general. I really do think it would a different ballgame altogether if Palestine remained Palestine with the majority citizenry still Palestinian Arab with Sephardic Jews living in peace with them because there is no Zionist push for a Jewish State imposed by force of arms and support of the Western powers to replace their Arab Muslim majority country.

Ghook, we aren't that far apart on Israel as I too want to see Israelis safe but I am being realistic in seeing the future of Israel as totally bleak as it can only slide more and more into a fascist military fortress state to protect itself from its own neighbors who hate it with undying passion.

The problem Israel and the West who imposed this Jewish religious state on Arab Muslims is that the Arab Palestinian Muslim population pushed out of Israel is in the millions and these millions of Pals are backed up by ten times as many more Arab Muslims in nations around them. Its just like the U.S.'s problem with Mexican illegals. Mexico is right across the border supplying not only bodies but culture continually into America to support the wave of Mexicans becoming Mexican Americans illegally and eventually legally and changing the whole political spectrum in the southwest USA in the process.

It is inevitable that Pals will eventually retake their country. Like I say, only a virtual Fortress Israel can stop this process which means Israelis get to live more and more in their own prison of paranoia as they try to imprison their enemies without and within.

I am bringing prophesy of God's solution to this Israeli-Palestinian mess that God's taking the problem back to the beginning--in the texts of the Abrahamic promises where Ishmael and Isaac, the Jacob and Esau were split apart in the foundational verses in Genesis.

There has been one name for the Holy Land that has lasted the longest, lasting for several thousand years, the name of the land promised to Abraham. Canaan.

[Athena]

Quote by: JBG I was going to add this as a response on another board. I decided it merited separate discussion. A bit of history about the Muslims is in order. During the pre-Muslim era, the wanton and vicious habits of the desert people of the area from Egypt through Saudi Arabia is well known, and memorialized in the oral history contained in the Bible. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah, of the binding of Isaac (by negative implication the ritual child sacrifice among neighboring peoples), the purposeless plugging with sand of water wells dug by Abraham and Isaac are but some examples. The wickedness and idolatry prevalant in these areas, along with sexual perversion and violence, existed well before Islam and the fault for them must be laid at the door, not of Islam, but of local "cultures". Islam's extremely violent start is also well known. Their virtually unhindered spread from the Mecca area to the Atlantic and to the borders of modern India occurred largely at the point of a sword. There were, during those early years, some constructive developments. In many areas, intellectually, they were ahead of Europe, then in the "Dark Ages". They were more tolerant of Jews and Christians than Christians were of Jews and Muslims. At least "dhimmitude" allowed survival, under conditions of degradation and financial servitude. Their predatory habits on the trade of other peoples is also well-known. One of the great impetuses for the development of shipping was the need to avoid travel through mortally dangerous Muslim lands en route to the Far East. Later, the Barbary Coast pirates and pirates off modern-day Somalia, all Musims, made theft from Europeans (and eventually Americans) and the "white slave" trade an art form. Then as now, it took the Americasns to crack down rather than pay tribute. Since then, the Barbary Coast Pirates have morphed into OPEC (all of the money benefits the rulers, not the people), the UN, and disaster-milking. Remeber those pitiful faces on ads for charities after the Indonesia tsunami and the Pakistan earthquake? How much rebuilding do you think has really happened? Then as now, there are producers, and there are extorters and takers. After the Holocaust, an undisputed atrocity, its victims picked themselves up, and are now valuable contributors to the world wherever they live. Did (do) they have cause to be "angry" with the butchers that killed 6,000,000 of them? Where are their suicide bombers? Where are the Americans attacking bazaars in Araby after September 11? Where's the anger of the non-Muslim world against Muslims? Instead of anger, you see the Michael Moores of the world prattling about "negotiations". An old radio piece by Gordon Sinclair says it best: Oiginal material by this poster

Well, that got too complicated for me, taking in the whole world! Spanning for biblical days to the present.

But I will say, using the bible to explain today's conflict is helpful why? The spread of Islam was different from the spread of Rome how? The morals of Arabs were different from the morals of Rome and the Greeks how? I don't think a culturally biased history is a reliable source of information, and the bible most certianly is biased history.

[texasdave]

Patrickhenry,
You can't find any MODERN examples of Jewish extremism? I wonder why?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: texasdave Patrickhenry, You can't find any MODERN examples of Jewish extremism? I wonder why?

Did I say that? Heh. If so, it was a mistake...

Zionist extremism continues unabated, but may be best discussed in another thread.

[Matt W]

Zionist extremism continues unabated, but may be best discussed in another thread.

Quite correct.

[texasdave]

Give one example of Jewish extremism today.

[Athena]

Quote by: arielmessenger in the last 200 years Before Israel was was established? Like it or not, Israel is the focus of Arab Muslim hatred of the U.S. and the West in general. I really do think it would a different ball game altogether if Palestine remained Palestine with the majority citizenry still Palestinian Arab with Sephardic Jews living in peace with them because there is no Zionist push for a Jewish State imposed by force of arms and support of the Western powers to replace their Arab Muslim majority country. Ghook, we aren't that far apart on Israel as I too want to see Israelis safe but I am being realistic in seeing the future of Israel as totally bleak as it can only slide more and more into a fascist military fortress state to protect itself from its own neighbors who hate it with undying passion. The problem Israel and the West who imposed this Jewish religious state on Arab Muslims is that the Arab Palestinian Muslim population pushed out of Israel is in the millions and these millions of Pals are backed up by ten times as many more Arab Muslims in nations around them. Its just like the U.S.'s problem with Mexican illegals. Mexico is right across the border supplying not only bodies but culture continually into America to support the wave of Mexicans becoming Mexican Americans illegally and eventually legally and changing the whole political spectrum in the southwest USA in the process. It is inevitable that Pals will eventually retake their country. Like I say, only a virtual Fortress Israel can stop this process which means Israelis get to live more and more in their own prison of paranoia as they try to imprison their enemies without and within. I am bringing prophesy of God's solution to this Israeli-Palestinian mess that God's taking the problem back to the beginning--in the texts of the Abrahamic promises where Ishmael and Isaac, the Jacob and Esau were split apart in the foundational verses in Genesis. There has been one name for the Holy Land that has lasted the longest, lasting for several thousand years, the name of the land promised to Abraham. Canaan.

For sure the US support of Israel is part of the cause of Muslim conflict with the US but not the only cause. The US involvement in the mid east started getting messy during the Cold War. The US wanted to protect this oil rich territory for the allies, and wanted to prevent the spread of communism. Eisenhower, was making good decisions, but Johnson and then Carter made bad decisions.

Our demeanor in Arab countries has been terrible! While we occupied Iran and supported a brutal dictator, we also tolerated US citizens running over Iranian civilians. This carelessness with Iranians lives was excused by blaming the Iranians for not getting out of the way of the vechicles. This created a very bad impression of the US. Carter's support of the brutal leader, was also a very bad choice. When the people rebelled against this brutal leader, they had to throw the US out too. Then the US backed Saddam in a war against Iran. The CIA has been crawling all over these countries, stirring up trouble. Clinton was furious when the CIA failed to start a rebellion against Saddam, but then we had turned our backs on the Kurds when Saddam was testing weapons on them. Very bad politics!

Refusing to talk with people's leaders unless they can be bought off, and coming at them nothing but brute force, will never win the hearts of the people. US politics in the east have been arrogant and brutish, and explaining the problem with bible stories, just makes matters worse.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: texasdave Give one example of Jewish extremism today.

The evidence will be presented in another thread, new member..

Athena, when did the US occupy Iran? I wasn't aware of that event...

[texasdave]

I may be a new member to this forum but not to this life.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: texasdave I may be a new member to this forum but not to this life.

Just saying don't continue to call for evidence that doesn't pertain to this theread.

[Athena]

You can google Jewish extremism and get several modern examples. I chose the one below because it comes with a hope of peace. It comes from the one town where Arabs and Jews are living peacefully together. The problem is not just religious, but also in thinking people with Jewish heritage deserve the planned communities in land taken from Palestinians. The reasoning is they deserve the land, because they are associated with the original fight for Israel. The settlements are not for everyone. They are not the town in the article where Jews and Arabs live together in peace. The settlements are subsidized housing with jobs in planned towns and exclusively for Jews. That is sticking the knive in and twisting it. It sure will not result in peace. Some Jewish behaviors are nurturing the conflict and as long as the behavior presist so will the conflict. Israel is not a democracy with the freedoms of the US, because Israel is for Jews. That is the whole point of Israel.

Jewish ExtremismThe city's social fabric came under assault, as did all of Israel, but proved to be resilient in the face of Jewish extremism as it did many times before ... Jewish Extremism - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

[texasdave]

Jewish settlements in their own land is your example of extremism? Pathetic. Meanwhile some muslim is exploding in a marketplace...daily.

[Athena]

Quote by: PatrickHenry The evidence will be presented in another thread, new member.. Athena, when did the US occupy Iran? I wasn't aware of that event...

Thanks for the question. I used to be in an Iranian forum, and couldn't understand the argument that the Shaw should have used more force to suppress his opposition. This is different from the argument that the problem was he was too brutal, and Carter should be faulted for backing him. The following, explains the problem was caused by the communist and it was a mistake for Carter to pressure for human rights. Making my arguement wrong in an important way.

However, we were providing the Shaw with military expertise and training. We did not control Iran, but had our troops there, running over people. To really understand the whole ugly mess, we have to learn about the games the USSR and US were playing. Both have contributed to empowering the terrorist. What a mess!

IranianVoice.org - Carter Sold Out Iran 1977-1978Carter pressured Iran to allow for "free assembly" which meant that groups would be able to meet and agitate for the overthrow of the government. ... IranianVoice.org - Carter Sold Out Iran 1977-1978 - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

[Athena]

Quote by: texasdave Jewish settlements in their own land is your example of extremism? Pathetic. Meanwhile some muslim is exploding in a marketplace...daily.

Not reading the information provided is pathetic.

And excuse me, but in a real democracy people have equal rights, not special privilege, and the settlements are not on Israel's land, but are illegally cut of Palestinian land.