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xyzer · Oct 1, 2006, 01:26 pm

We know that Time exists..I've often wondered whether you and I are moving in a stationary Time Warp, or whether we are stationary and Time is passing around us?
Anybody have an explanation??Or know of a theory??

underbear1 · Oct 1, 2006, 01:33 pm

An interesting theory I read from someone who advocates reincarnation, is that the center being (soul) is in the center, and each lifespan is going on at the same moment, each life radiates from the center like orange segments.

**Jack** · Oct 1, 2006, 02:06 pm

"Time is that which keeps everything from happening at once."
Seriously though, time is an interesting concept. It's certainly a human perception. And it appears to be related to motion. I've thought a lot about the concept of time over the years and admit I'm still not sure what it is or why we perceive it as we do.

I'm glad you brought this up. I'll have to organize my thoughts better and post back with other questions and observations.

When I have time, that is.

The Bacon Guy · Oct 1, 2006, 04:17 pm

I just finished reading a book which had some interesting theories about the nature of time. One I found particularly interesting was regarding the one directional nature of time.There are a few things in particle physics which call into question this one directional nature.

It is easier to understand time mathematically when you look at it in terms of particles. In a Feynman Diagram which shows space on the x axis and time on the y axis, a particle is represented moving through space-time. In the conventional concept of time, everything must move “up” the x axis, i.e forward in time. An example of some simplified particle interactions is shown below:

This shows a photon producing an electron positron pair, the positron of which goes on to meet another electron. They annihilate to produce another photon. This all occurs moving forward in time on the Feynman diagram.

This shows an electron zigzagging through space-time and absorbing a photon (the photon is travelling back in time because for a photon, which travels at the speed of light, time is meaningless). This scatters the electron back in time until it emits re-emits the photon. This is mathematically equivelant to the previous diagram.

Because the diagrams are essentially the same, and no one really knows what is going on at a subatomic level, other than through mathematics, the “back in time” model is just as plausible as the forward in time model. This sort of throws the idea of one directional time out the window.

xyzer · Oct 2, 2006, 02:35 pm

Bacon guy..

Quote:

photon, which travels at the speed of light, time is meaningless). T

Is the speed of light finite in all situations? We know that light can be deflected by gravity and thus affected to we viewers? If so, then time may not be meaningless. It may be there and the proton is moving through it but can be affected by other forces?

Captain Chaos · Oct 2, 2006, 03:43 pm

I think we have to recognize that there are multiple concepts of time.

The common-sense concept of time is the flow of events (which I am sure must quickly become a circular definition).

In some versions of modern physics, time is a discrete component of spacetime. That is, both space and time are granular - divided up into discrete quanta. This concept provides a neat way of explaining the phenomenon known as time dilation.

However, there is no reason to assume that events cannot occur outside of spacetime. Indeed, if our universe began with the big bang, then (unless you believe in acausality) there must exist events outside of our timestream. How else could the big bang have been initiated to begin with?

Thus, we could well have multiple (nested) dimensions of time. In order for such a system to be stable, the inner dimension of time would have to have a variety of rules by which it operates.

Atlas · Oct 2, 2006, 04:27 pm

It is certain that space & time are inseparable, as in space without time matter and the distance between matters becomes irrelevant same is in time without space around to manipulate becomes nothing.

The word "event" that you are using is itself a human perception of space and time, so "events" as you call them can not exist without those 2 factors, maybe there are more spacetime realities separate from our own in which those can occur.

An interesting theory I heard about is the string theory, it says that our universe is made out of "strings" that are particles that are practically non-existing (no size or mass) witch by constantly vibrating create all time & matter around them.

Captain Chaos · Oct 2, 2006, 04:32 pm

Quote:

It is certain that space & time are inseparable,

This appears to be the case within our universe. That does not necessarily hold true for all of existence.

Quote:

An interesting theory I heard about is the string theory, it says that our universe is made out of "strings" that are particles that are practically non-existing (no size or mass) witch by constantly vibrating create all time & matter around them.

Strings are not particles, they are 1 dimensional. Particles are not said to be composed of strings, but, rather, are defined by them. Matter is defined by patterns of resonance within superstrings.

Superstring theory is apparently being supplanted by M-theory, however.

The Architect · Oct 5, 2006, 04:21 pm

I was reading a book by Michio Kaku, and he said, relating to the string theory if everything has little vibrating strings that create all time and matter around them then there should be a composer.

-Isnt the M-Theory a theory to untie all theories? To answer all question of the universe?
If not please explain..

Lullaby Chainer · Oct 5, 2006, 05:15 pm

There's a theory called the Cubed Time theory, or something like that.

Basically, it insists that time is not in motion. It is represented in this theory as something similar to a cube, or dimensional object.

Every instant in our illusion of time is a layer of this cube. There is no transgression from the past to the present to the future.

I think if you google search it, you can find the wikipedia on it. Very interesting. There's a whole lot more to the theory, but I can't remember.

weasel · Oct 6, 2006, 03:34 pm

Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once.

dreamer · Oct 6, 2006, 03:55 pm

Time is what you make of it, time is so short that it goes past in a blink of an eye, i myself will be in time for ever. blink, blink time is that fast that i missed that bit.
Dreamer

weasel · Oct 6, 2006, 03:58 pm

To quote the Prince of Persia: "Some people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure always in one direction. But I have seen the face of time and I can tell you that they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm."

The Architect · Oct 6, 2006, 05:22 pm

Time is a concept created by humans in order to help understand life, the stars and heavens. Of course they used it to plan out there day which i think is the only usefull purpose of time, to help organize my day.

Lullaby Chainer · Oct 6, 2006, 10:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: weasel

Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once.

Um, the dimension of time exists in order to convenience us? Umm... what? Surely there's more to this statement then the very little sense I've pulled from it. In which case, I'd love to hear why you think the existence of something is caused by the effects of its existence. If your explanation is God, don't bother responding.

The Architect · Oct 6, 2006, 10:32 pm

Maybe time is putting series of events in order, i think that there is a theory about that, everything that has,is,and will happen is already laid down on a timeline, and so in theory you can travel along this line(Time Travel).
??

Marconius · Oct 7, 2006, 01:53 am

Quote:

Quote by: Captain Chaos

However, there is no reason to assume that events cannot occur outside of spacetime. Indeed, if our universe began with the big bang, then (unless you believe in acausality) there must exist events outside of our timestream. How else could the big bang have been initiated to begin with?

In a sense our Universe is the big bang. People usually imagine the big bang as something small exploding out into a vast amount of empty space, but this is incorrect. Before the big bang there was no space at all and the 'space' where the big bang began was everywhere that currently exists within the universe. Your favorite chair, your car, your backyard, are all occupying the same location where the big bang happened. Current theories seem to be leaning toward a true vacuum as being the cause of the big bang apparently in a true vacuum particles can spontaneously appear and the big bang brought this quantum expansion from the micro to the macro level when space occurred/expanded. That is the hypothesis anyway.

samsara15 · Oct 7, 2006, 10:04 am

Time is a mystery to me. I think Architect makes a good argument. The only one way you could see everything on the Time Line would be to see outside of it.However, Timeless is essentailly a meaningless term. There's a lot we don't know, and never will. What else can we say about a universe composed 90% of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, something we apparently can't even detect here on Earth?

The Architect · Oct 7, 2006, 04:53 pm

Like samsara15 said, we will probably never know what time really is, but we can continue to guess, if fun and interesting.

iahag · Oct 9, 2006, 01:40 pm

One things' for sure, we wouldnt be here without it.

Oct 1, 2006, 01:26 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
xyzer Liberated thinker Location: New Mexican Alps Posts: 1,981	What is Time? We know that Time exists..I've often wondered whether you and I are moving in a stationary Time Warp, or whether we are stationary and Time is passing around us? Anybody have an explanation??Or know of a theory?? Thus we play the fools with the time, and the spirits of the wise sit in the clouds and mock us.

Oct 1, 2006, 02:06 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,001	"Time is that which keeps everything from happening at once." Seriously though, time is an interesting concept. It's certainly a human perception. And it appears to be related to motion. I've thought a lot about the concept of time over the years and admit I'm still not sure what it is or why we perceive it as we do. I'm glad you brought this up. I'll have to organize my thoughts better and post back with other questions and observations. When I have time, that is. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Oct 1, 2006, 04:17 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
The Bacon Guy Brb, France Location: Scotland, Central Lowlands Posts: 2,883	I just finished reading a book which had some interesting theories about the nature of time. One I found particularly interesting was regarding the one directional nature of time.There are a few things in particle physics which call into question this one directional nature. It is easier to understand time mathematically when you look at it in terms of particles. In a Feynman Diagram which shows space on the x axis and time on the y axis, a particle is represented moving through space-time. In the conventional concept of time, everything must move “up” the x axis, i.e forward in time. An example of some simplified particle interactions is shown below: This shows a photon producing an electron positron pair, the positron of which goes on to meet another electron. They annihilate to produce another photon. This all occurs moving forward in time on the Feynman diagram. This shows an electron zigzagging through space-time and absorbing a photon (the photon is travelling back in time because for a photon, which travels at the speed of light, time is meaningless). This scatters the electron back in time until it emits re-emits the photon. This is mathematically equivelant to the previous diagram. Because the diagrams are essentially the same, and no one really knows what is going on at a subatomic level, other than through mathematics, the “back in time” model is just as plausible as the forward in time model. This sort of throws the idea of one directional time out the window. The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.

Oct 2, 2006, 03:43 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Captain Chaos Shifting Paradigms Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 3,102	I think we have to recognize that there are multiple concepts of time. The common-sense concept of time is the flow of events (which I am sure must quickly become a circular definition). In some versions of modern physics, time is a discrete component of spacetime. That is, both space and time are granular - divided up into discrete quanta. This concept provides a neat way of explaining the phenomenon known as time dilation. However, there is no reason to assume that events cannot occur outside of spacetime. Indeed, if our universe began with the big bang, then (unless you believe in acausality) there must exist events outside of our timestream. How else could the big bang have been initiated to begin with? Thus, we could well have multiple (nested) dimensions of time. In order for such a system to be stable, the inner dimension of time would have to have a variety of rules by which it operates. Do all things with love.

Oct 2, 2006, 04:27 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Atlas Igneous Magma Location: Beer-Sheva, Israel Posts: 167	It is certain that space & time are inseparable, as in space without time matter and the distance between matters becomes irrelevant same is in time without space around to manipulate becomes nothing. The word "event" that you are using is itself a human perception of space and time, so "events" as you call them can not exist without those 2 factors, maybe there are more spacetime realities separate from our own in which those can occur. An interesting theory I heard about is the string theory, it says that our universe is made out of "strings" that are particles that are practically non-existing (no size or mass) witch by constantly vibrating create all time & matter around them. "If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up" - Hunter S Thompson.

Oct 1, 2006, 01:33 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	An interesting theory I read from someone who advocates reincarnation, is that the center being (soul) is in the center, and each lifespan is going on at the same moment, each life radiates from the center like orange segments.

Oct 5, 2006, 04:21 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	I was reading a book by Michio Kaku, and he said, relating to the string theory if everything has little vibrating strings that create all time and matter around them then there should be a composer. -Isnt the M-Theory a theory to untie all theories? To answer all question of the universe? If not please explain..

Oct 5, 2006, 05:15 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Lullaby Chainer Digital Witchcraft Posts: 3,020	There's a theory called the Cubed Time theory, or something like that. Basically, it insists that time is not in motion. It is represented in this theory as something similar to a cube, or dimensional object. Every instant in our illusion of time is a layer of this cube. There is no transgression from the past to the present to the future. I think if you google search it, you can find the wikipedia on it. Very interesting. There's a whole lot more to the theory, but I can't remember. *Powerful.. magical.. e-e-e-eevil..*

Oct 6, 2006, 03:34 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
weasel Marksman Location: "A place that cannot be found except by those who already know where it is." Posts: 199	Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once. "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." -Dylan Thomas

Oct 6, 2006, 03:55 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
dreamer Igneous Magma Posts: 674	Time is what you make of it, time is so short that it goes past in a blink of an eye, i myself will be in time for ever. blink, blink time is that fast that i missed that bit. Dreamer

Oct 6, 2006, 03:58 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
weasel Marksman Location: "A place that cannot be found except by those who already know where it is." Posts: 199	To quote the Prince of Persia: "Some people think time is like a river that flows swift and sure always in one direction. But I have seen the face of time and I can tell you that they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm." "Rage, rage against the dying of the light." -Dylan Thomas

Oct 6, 2006, 05:22 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	Time is a concept created by humans in order to help understand life, the stars and heavens. Of course they used it to plan out there day which i think is the only usefull purpose of time, to help organize my day.

Oct 6, 2006, 10:32 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	Maybe time is putting series of events in order, i think that there is a theory about that, everything that has,is,and will happen is already laid down on a timeline, and so in theory you can travel along this line(Time Travel). ??

Oct 7, 2006, 10:04 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 Ch Latour 61 Location: Maryland Posts: 638	Time is a mystery to me. I think Architect makes a good argument. The only one way you could see everything on the Time Line would be to see outside of it.However, Timeless is essentailly a meaningless term. There's a lot we don't know, and never will. What else can we say about a universe composed 90% of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, something we apparently can't even detect here on Earth? Economic Left/Right -8.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian –6.97

Oct 7, 2006, 04:53 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
The Architect Agnostic, Cynic Location: New York Posts: 285	Like samsara15 said, we will probably never know what time really is, but we can continue to guess, if fun and interesting.

Oct 9, 2006, 01:40 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
iahag Skeptic of Skeptics Location: Bristol/Plymouth Posts: 219	One things' for sure, we wouldnt be here without it. The more painless an exercise, the more likely you are of doing it. The more painful an exercise, the more likely you are of learning from it.