Apocolyptic Apathy

[Clarence]

At this moment there are two factions amongst good natured people here in America. People are progressive or otherwise. Right now it is dire for the progressive to see society into the new millenium. *cough* fart*. Seriously. Anyhow, there's a large group of intelligent and good people who believe that the world is too far gone. They are Christians of newer denominations (ie New Hope) which believe we are living the final days. Rapture and all that. They also believe that they are saved, no strings attached.

What bothers me, is the total apathy they are currently displaying towards their communities welfare. The good things about america rely, in part, on the young and virtous who gravitate toward peacful religion. Ten years ago, Christian youth groups were focused on helping people in thier communities. Now, they are more for recruiting. The local New Hope youth definitly seems desparate to save all they can before some quickly approaching deadline. They bring 'em in a save them and that's it. No good deeds, Food drives, nothing. In other words, Christains have thrown in the towel. Evil has prevailed and it's time for them to go to heaven while God takes care of business. Obviously I'm not talking about the 'Christians' who are engaged in a religious war with Muslims. And I'm not talking about the 'Christains' who feel they are on the good side of some 'cultural war'. I'm talking about the Christains all around us that do not see anyone acting on god's will as they understand it, and are resigned.

Meanwhile, opportunities to save ourselves flash by and they wait. Oblivious while we let villians rule the kingdom. Thoughts?

[PatrickHenry]

I don't know what church you're talking about.

[phoenix_fire]

Yup. I was kinda looking for a little clarity myself.

[Jack]

I've commented before on the disconnect religious people feel from their planet and their fellow humans. Most religious texts encourage the faithful to consider themselves apart from nature and humanity. They are special creations, they are unrelated to all the other animals, they are called out from among the unbelievers. They believe the planet was created for their use and that they were given dominion over it.

All their beliefs encourage disunity and disassociation. Throw in a belief that these are the endtimes, a belief that has persisted for over 2000 years, and you have every reason, if you're religious, to feel like all the other animals, unsaved humans and the planet itself are of no importance.

[phoenix_fire]

I'm sorry you feel that way. While that assumption may apply to a few, it would be an ignorant error to apply it to all.

[underbear1]

:) *******Have a Nice Rapture********:)

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Clarence Evil has prevailed and it's time for them to go to heaven while God takes care of business.

[yawn] whatever. Doesn't anyone get tired of hearing about this over and over again?

[Jack]

Dominionism is a trend in Protestant Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism that encourages not just active political participation in civic society but also attempts to dominate the political process. The broad concept of Dominionism is based on the Bible's text in Genesis 1:26: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (KJV). "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'" (NIV). Most Christians interpret this verse as meaning that God gave humankind dominion over the Earth. Many consider this a mandate for stewardship rather than the assertion of total control. A more assertive interpretation of this verse is seen as a command that Christians bring all societies, around the world, under the rule of the Word of God, as they understand it. As Sara Diamond explains, the general Dominionist idea, is "that Christians alone are Biblically mandated to occupy all secular institutions until Christ returns -- and there is no consensus on when that might be. Dominionist thinking precludes coalitions between believers and unbelievers...." This creates a contradictory tension. "The Christian Right wants to take dominion," says Diamond, but also wants to work within "the existing political-economic system, at the same time." In the United States, Dominionism raises issues of separation of church and state, but since Dominionism appears in a variety of forms, it is important to take each example and evaluate the specific beliefs, especially around the issue of theocracy. Generic Dominionism Within the Christian Right, concern over social, cultural, and political issues such as abortion and school prayer has prompted participation in elections since the 1970s. Activists and intellectuals in the Christian Right work in a coalition that includes both postmillennialists and premillennialists exercising political power primarily through the Republican Party. These dominionists generally insist that "America is a Christian Nation," and that therefore Christians need to re-assert control over political and cultural institutions. Yet many stop short of articulating a position that could be called theocratic. Theocratic dominionism The terms Theocratic Dominionism or Hard Dominionism, describe forms of Dominion Theology, a religious trend that arose in the 1970s as a series of small Christian movements that seek to establish a theocratic form of government. In the United States, a very doctrinaire version of Hard Dominionism is Christian Reconstructionism, a theonomic movement that seeks to replace the secular governance model, and subsequently the U.S. Constitution, creating a political and judicial system based on Old Testament Law, or Mosaic Law. Critics of the theocratic versions of dominionism often lump all the variants together, and use the terms Dominionism, Dominion Theology, and Christian Reconstructionism almost interchangeably, but this is problematic. For example, all Christian Reconstructionists are Dominionists, but not all Dominionists are Christian Reconstructionists. Dominionists often argue that the United States was originally envisioned as a society based on Biblical law.

Source

[gallo]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I'm sorry you feel that way. While that assumption may apply to a few, it would be an ignorant error to apply it to all.

But most of us don't apply that to all Christians. Most of us have friends and family who are devout Christians, and many of us were raised as Christians. The problem is that we also know and know of enough nut-cases who have actually been converted to the insane, non-biblical, and non-traditional idea of "rapture." Those are the ones being discussed. We have but to look around us on TV and in our government to find examples of such insanity. Those are the ones who have their eyes to heaven watching for the second coming while ignoring mass starvation and genocide. THE END IS NEAR!

[Autolykos]

I hope this isn't off-topic, but it seems to me that there's yet another form of "apocalyptic apathy". It seems to me that most of the people in this country are waiting for something. They don't know what it is they're waiting for, however, and they don't know when it (whatever it is) will happen. I admit to having this feeling myself. Does anyone have an explanation?

- Rob

[Clarence]

Quote by: Underbear *******Have a Nice Rapture********

*******Burn!******* heh

Quote by: Gallo Those are the ones who have their eyes to heaven watching for the second coming while ignoring mass starvation and genocide. THE END IS NEAR!

That's what I mean to say. Thank you

It seems to me that most of the people in this country are waiting for something. They don't know what it is they're waiting for, however, and they don't know when it (whatever it is) will happen. I admit to having this feeling myself. Does anyone have an explanation?

yes, I know what you mean. no, I don't have a good explaination. It just seems like we've reached a fork in the road. There's change a'comin. All one has to do is try to imagine possible outcomes to different current events. Just one more catylyst here in the states will push us down one path or the other.

Pat, from what I know of your faith. I'm not talking about you.

Quote by: Pheonix I was kinda looking for a little clarity myself.

I hope Gallo's post helped. That's what I meant

[yawn] whatever. Doesn't anyone get tired of hearing about this over and over again?

which part?

[underbear1]

To mass fires, yes! One hundred stories high
People gettin' loose y’all gettin' down on the roof - Do you hear?
(the folks are flaming) Folks were screamin' - out of control
It was so entertainin' - when the boogie started to explode
I heard somebody say

Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down
Burnin'!

Satisfaction (uhu hu hu) came in the chain reaction
(burnin') I couldn't get enough, (till I had to self-destroy) so I had to
self destruct, (uhu hu hu)
The heat was on (burnin’), rising to the top, huh!
Everybody's goin' strong (uhu hu hu)
And that is when my spark got hot
I heard somebody say

Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Trammps

[phoenix_fire]

Well, I had a streak of being really interested in this Rapture stuff, but it was when I was young and immature and it was also before I became a disciple (meaning before I really knew what Christianity was about). I therefore consider Rapture obsession as a mark of immaturity. My thoughts are that whether there is or isn't going to be a Rapture in my lifetime is entirely irrelevant. One: having a correct belief on this is not requisite for Heaven. Two: having a correct belief on this does not help me in any way to get anyone else to Heaven. Who would care? Three: if there is going to be a Rapture in my lifetime, the best thing I can do is just keep on working like I already am to please God. In other words, look busy. There is no way I would be able to predict it and there would be nothing I could do about it. There are far more important things to worry about.

As far as my actual beliefs on Rapture, I can't say I have many. The scriptural basis for it is very thin. I always suspect things that have just one vague reference. And since I deem it so unimportant anyway, I haven't devoted much energy lately to figuring out what I think of its verity. I really could care less.

[Marconius]

Quote by: Autolykos I hope this isn't off-topic, but it seems to me that there's yet another form of "apocalyptic apathy". It seems to me that most of the people in this country are waiting for something. They don't know what it is they're waiting for, however, and they don't know when it (whatever it is) will happen. I admit to having this feeling myself. Does anyone have an explanation? - Rob

I have this feeling myself and it isnt a feeling of good change. I wonder if there were very many people with feelings such as these before WW2 or the end of the roman empire. A society acts very much like an organism and through emergence perhaps we are getting a heads up about something big on the horizon. Not through any mystic or supernatural mechanism but because of how ideas flow through society.

The above is just an idea and it could just be a mass delusion.

[Autolykos]

I have an idea as to what is going to happen, and it will not involve religion in any way.

- Rob

[Marconius]

Quote by: Autolykos I have an idea as to what is going to happen, and it will not involve religion in any way. - Rob

Do you mean a technology singularity?

[Clarence]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I therefore consider Rapture obsession as a mark of immaturity.

I think I understand. Kinda like Goth kids or something. It's a stage. Is the Rapture stage for adults too? under what circumstances?

My thoughts are that whether there is or isn't going to be a Rapture in my lifetime is entirely irrelevant. One: having a correct belief on this is not requisite for Heaven. Two: having a correct belief on this does not help me in any way to get anyone else to Heaven. Who would care? Three: if there is going to be a Rapture in my lifetime, the best thing I can do is just keep on working like I already am to please God. In other words, look busy. There is no way I would be able to predict it and there would be nothing I could do about it. There are far more important things to worry about.

rock on. keep on keepin on. But, how are you sure that we won't be able to stop rapture? How bad would it have to get, before a good christain could justify...not doing everything they could. I'm struggling here...

As far as my actual beliefs on Rapture, I can't say I have many. The scriptural basis for it is very thin. I always suspect things that have just one vague reference. And since I deem it so unimportant anyway, I haven't devoted much energy lately to figuring out what I think of its verity. I really could care less.

Could you educate me on different denominations and their rapture beliefs? I know it's a favor. I'll not critcize...

I'm trying to understand this church in my town that's all.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: phoenix_fire There are far more important things to worry about.

Like, where will we get toilet paper? Sure, it sounds like something trivial to worry about because "The end of time is here!!!". But, the bible people haven't actually seen the end of times yet, so they don't know exactly what it looks like. Even events they did witness, are abstractly described by todays understanding.

Ever lived without electricity for a week? In NY a few years ago, the city was paralyzed. What if endtimes means: Somehow, all the electronic devices stop working, which causes mass hysteria, and the mass hysteria is what is described as the end times?

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: Clarence I think I understand. Kinda like Goth kids or something. It's a stage. Is the Rapture stage for adults too? under what circumstances?

Well, when you're talking about spiritual maturity, things get interesting because there really isn't a set of ages to accompany when one enters or exits a phase. I will tell you that I would consider most american Christians to be extremely immature (with no desire to change it), and further, I think that many people who call themselves Christian in this country aren't really.

But yeah. Rapture-obsession is kinda like a Christian goth stage. It is a stage where extremely immature Christians or pre-Christians have not acquired the ability to have concern for others (and is thus marked by a lack of real evangelism). They have a kind of adolescent ego-centrism going on. All that they are concerned with is being proven right when Jesus comes back. (This is where you get the bumper stickers and stuff: 'Caution: this vehicle will be driverless in the case of Rapture' etc.)

rock on. keep on keepin on. But, how are you sure that we won't be able to stop rapture? How bad would it have to get, before a good christain could justify...not doing everything they could. I'm struggling here...

I'm not entirely sure about the verity of it in the first place. But if it is indeed God's plan, then I doubt there is much to do about it. Supposedly, no one is supposed to be able to know when it would happen anyway. Certainly when no one is expecting it. But as to your last question in this part of the quote, there is no point at which a Christian can justify mediocrity. No matter how bad the world gets, Christians are supposed to be "salt and light". And the darker the world gets, the brighter that light shines. Hopelessness is beyond the realm of the Christian who believes that the Holy Spirit is at work in them. God can do anything. If you think a pre-Rapture degenerate world looks hopeless, I would challenge you to think about how it looked to eleven uneducated Jewish misfits who were suddenly told that they were responsible for reaching the entire world for Christ and making sure His legacy didn't die with them. Eleven uneducated misfits is not the way that you decide to start a faith that will last millennia. Yet they did it, and we see the results today. Therefore, if they had no excuse, then nothing we face can serve as an excuse.

Could you educate me on different denominations and their rapture beliefs? I know it's a favor. I'll not critcize... I'm trying to understand this church in my town that's all.

I don't know exactly how beliefs vary from denomination to denomination. It's not preached about much in most churches. Could you tell me a little about this church?

Quote by: Compugasm Like, where will we get toilet paper? Sure, it sounds like something trivial to worry about because "The end of time is here!!!". But, the bible people haven't actually seen the end of times yet, so they don't know exactly what it looks like. Even events they did witness, are abstractly described by todays understanding. Ever lived without electricity for a week? In NY a few years ago, the city was paralyzed. What if endtimes means: Somehow, all the electronic devices stop working, which causes mass hysteria, and the mass hysteria is what is described as the end times?

Nah. I think not. I used to live in a small town outside of Houston. When Rita hit, the town was without power for about 2 1/2 weeks. My parents were siphoning off gas from the cars in order to power the generator. If you think NY without electricity is bad, think about facing the Texas heat and humidity without an air conditioner. *shudder* Many people that have the use of an air conditioner still consider a Texas summer to be worse than Hell.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Autolykos I have an idea as to what is going to happen, and it will not involve religion in any way. - Rob

I have long predicted a laser light show Messiah returning to incite the Great Battle bwetween religions.