Your Religion

[Century 25]

Captain said:

I

find that both religious types and atheists basically assume their belief to be true until proven false. Are you different from this?

The scientific method is the only way to go.. it is time-tested.. and is by any measure the best devised by humanity.. to trash it.. as is the latest trend via the Bush syndicate.. is the road back into a new dark age..

[Zee-Axis]

Quote by: pikatore ok thats it. im sick of people, who out of ignorance, claim that weak atheism doesnt exist.

Weak Atheism DOES exist! I see it printed less than an inch away from this line very of text. Proof positive.

It's weak Atheists that don't exist.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Zee-Axis Weak Atheism DOES exist! I see it printed less than an inch away from this line very of text. Proof positive. It's weak Atheists that don't exist.

sigh... read my thread.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Century 25 Captain said: I The scientific method is the only way to go.. it is time-tested.. and is by any measure the best devised by humanity.. to trash it.. as is the latest trend via the Bush syndicate.. is the road back into a new dark age..

I support the proper use of scientific method.

The scientific method does not say anything about assuming materialism to be true until proven false.

Bush is a religious fruitcake.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: gw120 I'm an atheist. I believe man made god out of ignorance and fear.

Man has imagined many things. Imagining a thing does not mean that similar things do not exist.

Given forever, I see no reason why god-level beings would not emerge/evolve.

[LtMisha]

Ok. Imagine a tornado going through a scrapyrad. Can that tornado bulid a fully opperational Boeing 747 from the scrap? I think not. So for those of you who say that Genesis is bullcrap, how could this universe have evolved from nothin? How can the delecate balance of life have just happened? How could humans have evolved from being cratures whos'e vocabulary extended to 'Ug' to what we are now, rulers of Earth? Surely, there has to be some sort of Divine power or presence behind all this?

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: LtMisha So for those of you who say that Genesis is bullcrap, how could this universe have evolved from nothin? How can the delecate balance of life have just happened? How could humans have evolved from being cratures whos'e vocabulary extended to 'Ug' to what we are now, rulers of Earth? Surely, there has to be some sort of Divine power or presence behind all this?

There are many many answers to your question that have nothing to do with genesis.

[pikatore]

Quote by: LtMisha Ok. Imagine a tornado going through a scrapyrad. Can that tornado bulid a fully opperational Boeing 747 from the scrap? I think not. So for those of you who say that Genesis is bullcrap, how could this universe have evolved from nothin? How can the delecate balance of life have just happened? How could humans have evolved from being cratures whos'e vocabulary extended to 'Ug' to what we are now, rulers of Earth? Surely, there has to be some sort of Divine power or presence behind all this?

The 747 argument is a pile of crap, and about as intellecually dishonest as you can get. Say no more.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: pikatore The 747 argument is a pile of crap, and about as intellecually dishonest as you can get. Say no more.

The "747 argument is a pile of crap" argument is a pile of crap, and about as intellectually incomplete as saying "Nope" and leaving it at that. Please do say more.


The truth is, reality is prone to emergence. In a multiverse model, universes may also be subject to darwinian processes, and thus complex universes may also be prone to emergence.

There are plenty of explanations for how complexity can arise without gods.

However, those very same argument then lead to infinite emergence: If life-bearing complex universes can emerge, why can't gods?

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: pikatore god, how stupid of me to think otherwise. firstly, weak atheism does exist. secondly, all fence sitters are NOT agnostic, that is an ignorant assertion to make. read up on your definitions.

Wouldn't a fence sitter be agnostic BY definition? I don't have my dictionary handy and Wikipedia is hardly definitive, since it can be edited by about anyone.

[Mozart1220]

Quote by: LtMisha Ok. Imagine a tornado going through a scrapyrad. Can that tornado bulid a fully opperational Boeing 747 from the scrap? I think not. So for those of you who say that Genesis is bullcrap, how could this universe have evolved from nothin? How can the delecate balance of life have just happened? How could humans have evolved from being cratures whos'e vocabulary extended to 'Ug' to what we are now, rulers of Earth? Surely, there has to be some sort of Divine power or presence behind all this?

The tornado doesn't have organic materials and 7 billion years to work with.

And there doesn't HAVE to be any "devine power", just the right materials (which are plentiful in the universe) and time. Lots and lots of TIME.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Mozart1220 The tornado doesn't have organic materials and 7 billion years to work with. And there doesn't HAVE to be any "devine power", just the right materials (which are plentiful in the universe) and time. Lots and lots of TIME.

Exactly.

But, given time - lots and lots of time - in fact, given infinite time - how could gods not evolve/emerge?

[Zee-Axis]

Quote by: Captain Chaos But, given time - lots and lots of time - in fact, given infinite time - how could gods not evolve/emerge?

It depends on your point of view. To a society sufficiently less "advanced" than ours, we would seem like gods. That does not however, make you a god. As a matter of fact, to a society sufficiently more advanced than OURS, you would probably seem like a moron.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Zee-Axis It depends on your point of view. To a society sufficiently less "advanced" than ours, we would seem like gods. That does not however, make you a god. As a matter of fact, to a society sufficiently more advanced than OURS, you would probably seem like a moron.

I am pretty sure I seem like a moron to plenty of people in the society we have.

If we define a god as a being above a certain level of power - then yes, it would be fair to call someone who is sufficiently advanced a god.

[Zee-Axis]

I guess the question now is:
Does perceiving a being as a god and naming him thus actually make him/her a god?

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: Zee-Axis I guess the question now is: Does perceiving a being as a god and naming him thus actually make him/her a god?

A being is a god if it meets a definition of the word.

If two people are to agree on such a thing, they must be using the same or compatible definitions.

[Century 25]

The scientific method does not say anything about assuming materialism to be true until proven false. Bush is a religious fruitcake.

Yeah Captain.. I surely agree with that.. and.. he's a two-bit gangster for his handlers..

[pikatore]

Quote by: Captain Chaos A being is a god if it meets a definition of the word. If two people are to agree on such a thing, they must be using the same or compatible definitions.

I think you sidestepped his question, mate.

[Captain Chaos]

Quote by: pikatore I think you sidestepped his question, mate.

ok...


A being is a god if he meets the necessary definition.

Our perceiving him as a god does not make anything. Our perceptions could be wrong.

[pikatore]

Quote by: Captain Chaos ok... A being is a god if he meets the necessary definition. Our perceiving him as a god does not make anything. Our perceptions could be wrong.

That makes sense. For example, followers of the Peoples Temples thought the nutter that led them was a god of sorts.