Your Religion

[RickHodgin]

Quote by: Captain Chaos nope - that is just the demon within you, convincing you that believing your imagination is a good thing. Face it dude, you are possessed. the purpose of the Bible is to convince people that our creator is a perpetrator of horrendous evil, and then to accept that evil as good. How much more demonic can it get?

It takes me a minute to get it sometimes, but I do.

[Jagged]

Ok. Im going to start this using the only part of your argument in which you agree with me.

I agree [that using the bible to convey something to atheists is pointless and arrogant]. How much scripture have I quoted in any of the threads I've posted in? Only a couple to back up the point someone else (a nonbeliever) made in contrasting my argument.

Well, im glad you agree with me. That’s a step. But, sadly, the fact is that you do use the bible to back up your arguments. Perhaps not directly by using quotes, but certainly indirectly by simply cite it (or "what Jesus 'wants' us to do, as i said in my previous post)in many occasions:

The fact is the Bible backs itself up through everything we see around us, as explained through the point of view told by the Bible

Jesus tells us that His way is better, and He is quite correct in saying that.

Quote by: Rick in DEBATE The Bible teaches that if Jesus Christ be lifted up (His purpose understood and comprehended) then all men would be drawn unto Him.

You do it all of the time; you even did it in your debate against Chaos as a direct rebuttal against one of his points.

The Bible tells that those who have not come to an honest understanding of the Bible cannot fathom its deep meanings. They are not of this world. They cannot be reasoned into. Those who have faith have made the leap from the physical into the spiritual and are able to understand the deeper meanings in the Bible, which is when they become clear. To use the Bible's internal text as a reason to convince anyone they should believe in the Bible is, as you say, not correct. But to understand why the Bible is correct, one must study the Bible and gain that spiritual level of understanding through faith. Once that is achieved or arrived at, then the Bible's teachings will serve not only as a single-source of knowledge and understanding, but rather as a jumping-off point for looking...

This is actually a valid point. You are stating your belief that the truth in the Bible cannot be found until one studies it and then one will believe. Fine, ok, feel free to say that, but look at the context in which you typed those paragraphs. It was in reponse to my quote "A lot of Christians, not pinpointing you, are so used to solely following the bible and using it to settle all arguments that the idea of not being able to use the bible as their argument for something seems absurd...." Yet notice the italization of the word belief above. You can't use your beliefs to refute against a statement of mine which relates to how Atheists and Christians deal with each other.


Hey... Look at this, the bible agrees with me

Even the Bible says we must convince those who are nonbelievers without using the word.

Which bings me back to my previous question which remains unanswered: If you can't argue for your religion and you shouldn't convince nonbelievers but using the word, which is really all you have been doing anyways, why are you here?

Everything He stands for is all that we need to survive. For believers walking on faith, that statement is completely true. And for nonbelievers reading this, the fact remains that if f they honestly study the Bible, they will come to a spiritual belief and understanding and it will all become clear

Here is a little reminder. The first two sentences make kindergarten sense: "For people who made the blind leap to believe in the Bible for no logical reason, they believe the first sentence because its in the bible." Great. The third, on the other hand, doesn't. Remember you cant just use the phrase "the fact remains that" to support a statement about nonbelievers for nonbelievers. I really dont see your point in saying this. Could you give me one? Youve already stated this belief of yours; you know we wont be persuaded by it; and you said we shouldn't and won't be persuaded by it.

it is the single source which allows an understanding of everything else to become known

Keep in mind this is why many nonbelievers are skeptical about the bible. I don’t think life's mysteries are all solved by converting to a religion. I partially believe that many people convert and continue to be Christians because they are too lazy to find the mysteries of life for themselves.

That is a logical fallacy only in this world. The fact is the Bible backs itself up through everything we see around us, as explained through the point of view told by the Bible. It is not only the Bible which does this, but it is the single source which allows an understanding of everything else to become known, thereby allowing everything in existence to backup everything in existence

Another reminder: you cant go into this "out of world" stuff when talking to people who don't belief in the "out of this world" stuff. I sincerely ask you to reread the paragraph you wrote here. It doesn't make sense. What are the words "this" and "it" referring to? And i wont even going into the concept of "everything in existence backing up everything in existence." What? And don't answer my "what?" question your "Its too deep, complex, and spiritual for you to understand" crap. It doesn't make sense. End of story. If you sincerely believe that you meant what you said in that paragraph, you also knew you were talking to Atheists and therefore you knew we wouldn't understand that "deep" stuff. In that case there would be no point in you writing it.

[Jagged]

Quote by: Chaos No, Rick. The Bible is a book inspired by demons to inspire humans to war with each other. This is self evident by the fact that the Bible has a pretense towards good, but actually guides people towards evil. Quote by: RickHodgin That statement exhibits a complete lack of understanding regarding the teachings of the Bible

No. His statement is exactly as sound as everything you have said on this forum. And there you go again, saying something is wrong because it isn't in the Bible. You and me and everybody else JUST said that you can't use the bible to prove or disprove statements. We don't care if he doesnt know anything about the bible. His argument, persay, is based of his hypothetical demonic religion. In this neutral forum his hypothetical demonic religion is as reasonable as all the statements you have been saying that have not been backed up by logic. He wants you to know what it feels like to be up against an argument in which the author just states stuff that can't be backed, and still believes in it. As we can see, by your relative reaction, you could say nothing to it, and are even angered by it. I am not arguing against the Bible right now. I am arguing against your methodology on this forum.

And, if you don't wish to reply to anything else i have written at all, answer me this. I swear, just try to answer this question and don't reply to anything else:

IF Chaos's statement above is not as correct as all/any the Christian beliefs you have stated on this forum, why? From the athiest bystander viewpoint in this argument, tell me why I should think his Hypothetical Demonic Religion is less correct than your Christian Religion.

[PatrickHenry]

Objection!

You guys are sidetracking the thread... We use this one as a means of "Getting to Know You" in the religion sphere of our lives.

Substantive debates on religion should be on another topic. It's easy to start a new one, ya know...

[Lunien]

Hi, new to forums, might as well post in this thread first. I'll be lurking around Volconvo. Anyways, I'm an atheist, no religious affiliation. I'll start off by saying something that many will disagree with: I think religion is a cop-out. I see wars started because of religion, between Hindus and Muslims, Jews and Islam. I hear some religious people explain things with, "It is the will of God" and thank God if something favourable has happened.

I can't help but wonder why people choose to attribute what happens in their life to a higher power? If bad things happen, they say that it is God's will and say no more on that matter. If good things happen, they praise God. I don't understand, why not grab your life by the scruff of its neck? YOU are in control of your life, YOU determine your fate, don't leave it to something else, you do it.

Of course, this is my opinion of religion. I don't approve of it and how people shape their life around it, but if they wish to be so, I can't knock on them for that.

Well, I know this is a "getting to know you" board, so if anyone wants to debate with me on my view and give me an explanation as to why people are religious, PM me or something.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Lunien Well, I know this is a "getting to know you" board, so if anyone wants to debate with me on my view and give me an explanation as to why people are religious, PM me or something.

Easy to start new topics or find one that already has your type of argument ongoing...jump in...

Welcome to Volconvo...

[Marilyn Monroe]

[quote=Lunien;299142]I can't help but wonder why people choose to attribute what happens in their life to a higher power? If bad things happen, they say that it is God's will and say no more on that matter. If good things happen, they praise God. I don't understand, why not grab your life by the scruff of its neck? YOU are in control of your life, YOU determine your fate, don't leave it to something else, you do it.

I think most people know this deep inside, but religion is like an anti-depressant pill, it gives people hope, and humans are a hopeful bunch.

Religion may keep some or many on a straighter course, and some need this to go on with daily living. Living is a stressful thing. I don't know what our parents were thinking when they decided to have us.

I've been here before. I was raised Catholic, and if I'm going to believe I'll go with Catholicism, but usually I don't believe very firmly. I think, and I know some would say no, but Catholicism taught me to be kind. That and to be as much like Jesus as is possible. That has to be the best thing I got out of it. I got a lot of guilt out of it, but there was some good, it is such an emotional religion. There's a lot of tenderness in Catholicism. A lot of love. There's also meanness, and hatred, but I think most of that comes from the people not the religion.

[WakeTFU]

Quote by: kingmea "I don't identify myself as a theist, atheist, or agnostic. Essentially, I don't absolutely believe or disbelieve in anything, so I don't wish to be tagged with a name to represent me." LOL. THAT IS THE PERFECT EMO RESPONSE. That is so funny...you don't want to conform to either side so you evade labeling yourself at all. I was baptized once. But nothing really happened from there.

You mean, that was what YOU thought was the 'perfect emo response' was. Ahh, opinions opinions. Everyone's got one and yours suck.

We are all divine immortal beings. I know this. Other people may not know this OR choose to know something else. Whatever, it's not like we really know anything in the first place...

[kingmea]

Quote by: WakeTFU You mean, that was what YOU thought was the 'perfect emo response' was. Ahh, opinions opinions. Everyone's got one and yours suck. We are all divine immortal beings. I know this. Other people may not know this OR choose to know something else. Whatever, it's not like we really know anything in the first place...

I was merely commenting on how (s)he failed to label himself anything, even though you are what your are, therefore needing no elaborate explanations of identity. You don't believe in God, you're an atheist. Or you're a paganist. Or you're a Buddhist. Or rather you can say you're learning about Christianity, and are probably Christian more than anything. Etc.
Choosing not to say anything about yourself, other than ---your wishes not to be labeled as anything--- is futile. I was connecting this to a South Park clip I've seen ("goth-served"), which is obviously more funny for me than for you. :rolleyes:
I still don't understand how my opinions "suck" in contrast to yours.

[WakeTFU]

Well the sayingy is really, "Excuses are like arm pits, everyone's got two and yours stink" (some people say ass cracks or something, but that one is just dumb and those people are wrong. Everyone has 'multiple' opinions, not just one, and 'ass crack' is just going for vulgarity (in the 50s)
lol

[Ivor Henry]

I grew up in a methodist religion, and for the longest i have been follwing that religion all the way up to high school.It wasn't untill my second semester in college when i found out new things about the Bible and Christianty that made me think twice about my relgion. Now I'm what you can call an open minded Christian because unlike other Christian that I know, I don't undermind any other religion out there.

[jmkelley]

Quote by: dotComa Hey, I'm new to the forums, and I think a good way to get things rolling here would be to ask something personal about you. What is your religious affiliation, why, and what conclusions have you come to about your own religion. Do you accept other ones? If not why... I myself was baptized catholic, but I find myself in a state of disbelief. I tend to keep an open mind, and believe that I do not know enough about my surroundings to judge them yet. I hold an attitude of "if there's a God I've been a good guy, but I'm not going to drink the Kool-Aide" if you get my drift. so...how about you?

My religion is my own business, I deeply resent any and all attempts by partially educated folks to change my way of thinking. I am now 78, have been thinking deeply about this and many other things for well over 60 years. Therefore, no kid or young person is someone I listen to today.

Whatever there is remains too vast for the human mind to fully understand.

My religion is based on a simple statement, "God is".

[GHook93]

Quote by: jmkelley My religion is my own business, I deeply resent any and all attempts by partially educated folks to change my way of thinking. I am now 78, have been thinking deeply about this and many other things for well over 60 years. Therefore, no kid or young person is someone I listen to today. Whatever there is remains too vast for the human mind to fully understand. My religion is based on a simple statement, "God is".

No one twisted your arm, nor are you applying for a job, social security, an apartment etc. It is a message board treat it as such!

It sounds like you have not learned much in your 78 years (if you really are 78, I would say you are more like 16 claiming to be a 78 yr old) and could learn something from a 20+ year old.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: jmkelley My religion is my own business, I deeply resent any and all attempts by partially educated folks to change my way of thinking. I am now 78, have been thinking deeply about this and many other things for well over 60 years. Therefore, no kid or young person is someone I listen to today.

I listen to people I respect, age isn't the only reason.

Whatever there is remains too vast for the human mind to fully understand.

Maybe so, but humans are becoming more like God in their knowledge of how the world works. We may not know everything, but we know quite a bit.

My religion is based on a simple statement, "God is".

Which was passed along the ages. Noone knows anything for certain, they just hope that somebody was right. I agree what a person believes is nobody's business, but if you volunteer it, it's out there.

[Eclipse]

Hello. New to the site so I figured I'd make a tiny introductory post while coming into this particular forum.

I'm agnostic; the soft kind not the hard kind.

Now, to learn something via friendly debate.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: jmkelley My religion is my own business,

That's an odd thing to say on a thread titled "Your Religion", don't you think?

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I'm not sure what I am a lot of people would call me a drug cultist though.

[Scribbler1]

That's not a religion. That's a hobby.

[Georgia]

I grew up forced to go to Catholic church every Sunday morning. That is how it was. Nothing more. Stand up and kneel a dozen times, mumble things and finally go home.

From 16-24 years old I "dabbled" in "freelance" witchcraft...just experimenting really and later found it loosely paralleled Wiccan. My good friends mother was psycic and I learned much from her. I participated in seances while astral projecting.

At about 25 gave my life to Christ and was reborn. Any "skills" I had learned over the previous years vanished. I became very serious about it. I was very active in the church volunteering my time setting up and running sound for a popular local christian band. During the time I spent reading the Bible a few times and go out looking for new converts through prison and orphanage visits, among other activities.

It was all going well in my world and I met "That special gal" and got married.
It went down hill fast from then on, and we moved to get away from the problem source. As a new member of a "Church of Holiness" sought counseling from any member with experience who would help us. We were very poor at the time and couldn't pledge 10% of our earnings to the church so was put off several times then completely shunned.

Shortly afterwards we separated and a year later divorced.
I don't completely blame that church but it surely could have helped us in the hour of need. ~20 years later they are still there, I suppose still waving hands, mumbling goblety-gook and falling on the floor.

14 Years ago I remarried and the union has been wonderful.

We went to a couple of Baptist churches and they always focused on the bottom line of their pledge cards. Our good friend gave a generous donation one Sunday which they couldn't afford and the Pastor handed the check back to them and said "Double it"
So the last time we've been to church is about 10 years ago.

We have some good friends who are Catholics, and visited their sit up, kneel, sit up again, kneel, robotically mumble some words then sit, kneel, sit some more and go home. They are good people at heart, but at the same time tear each other apart in gossip. They somehow believe those robotic rituals for one hour a week is going to open the gates for them. I dissagree.

So I've experienced (a form of) witchcraft, and the overwhelming power of Christ's love and the hypocracy of church and man.
I live my life and raise our three kids the best way I know how and live an example for them.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

ouch, my feelings... maybe that was none of your business