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Nov 24, 2005, 01:11 pm
| #802 (permalink) (top) |
| Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,936 | Infinity - everlasting and eternal. Hmmm? One current theory is that in infinity all things are possible and that is like that biblical saying that all things are possible with God. (or for God?). I could not help but notice that we can compare the two ideas. The idea that a coin can fall on both heads and tails at the same moment seems to be pushing the "possiblity" into a rather unrealistic potential however. Even for an "open-ended" universe which is how they discribed it in new ager material. None the less, this would point to the attitude that a sincer seeker of truth would embody, which is about starting off the search with a blank concept in his/her mind so as not to be influenced by pre-learned ideas about God or anything else we might think is the truth. To establish within our mind the infinate potential perspective. To be born again by starting over with nothing and then allowing that void to be filled with whatever relvelations flow into it from out of the Blue. Technosoul |
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Dec 8, 2005, 05:44 am
| #803 (permalink) (top) | |
| start drinking up  Location: london Posts: 582 | Quote:
I have no quarrel with you on your general veiws, I am not baptist myself or any other denomination, however... My father is a Revd. and the secretary of a prominent Baptist Union in the UK, he is not a "fundamentalist christian" or incapable of critical thought. He is many things, but neither of those and I find it presumtuous of you to classify him in those terms. I understand little of the theology or history of the Baptist Church in the US and have little regard for it, you may well be correct in your assumptions, as I say, I would thank you to make the distinction. "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855) | |
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Dec 8, 2005, 01:26 pm
| #804 (permalink) (top) |
| Charlatan Society Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 59 | Does the Canadian religion of sitting around in a club, on a couch or in an arena drinking beer and watching hockey count as a religion yet? Hey, I mean it has ritual, worship and is practiced by practically 75% of an entire nation! :eek: |
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Dec 10, 2005, 03:26 pm
| #806 (permalink) (top) | |
 9/11: Inside Job  Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455 | Quote:
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams | |
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Dec 15, 2005, 04:23 am
| #809 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,721 | Quote:
Your suggestion to get born with blank mind and start finding ultimate truth is a good hypothetical solution but not practical. Supposing you got a new born baby. Can you by any means keep his mind BLANK???? The basic expressions, justures, recognitions, his identity, his connections with you and other persons etc. etc. ought to appear automatically. I would like to change your BLANK mind with Un-biased or un-prjudiced but well developed and sharp mind. Still, Truth would be revealed with dogged persuation!!  I am sorry to appear after un-aviodable gap  | |
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Dec 18, 2005, 01:57 am
| #810 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Posts: 244 | ami I an opportunist ? I believe in God when I can't find explanations of some questions ( mostly scientific ) or when I'm in great trouble. I don't believe in God when I see we made so lavish churches / mosques/temples while millions of infants die in hunger . Am I opportunist ? I think I'm floating around to find an answer to the original question - to be or not to be ! |
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Dec 22, 2005, 05:03 pm
| #812 (permalink) (top) |
| 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455 | Abdullah, welcome. Would you consider returning to this forum frequently? Our Muslim members and visitors are infrequent. As a whole, I would say your faith and world-view would be respected here, but don't be insulted by the members who are anti-Islamic. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams |
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Dec 22, 2005, 05:59 pm
| #813 (permalink) (top) | |
| Assad ul-Jihaad  Location: On the Battlefield Posts: 212 | Quote:
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Dec 23, 2005, 03:05 am
| #814 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,721 | Quote:
Kuldeep Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 175 [quote=LogicaLunatic] "How can suffering and [your definition of] God co-exist?" [quote] Yesterday, on a different thread, I tried to prove mathematically how and why God does not exist as follows: God does not exist because, Universe is infinitly growing and also reducing as proved scietifically by astromers. Mathematically speaking, it has limits of minus infinity and plus infinity. Therefore, creator of infinity must be also an infinity. Adding of two infinities mean an infinity only. Therefore in the case of infinite universe, no creator is possible. My conclusion is therefore and that too mathematically that there can be no God, but if you want, you may call Universe only as God!!!!!! Therefore, God loving you, dictating you to do this or that does not exist. As said above what we concieve in the universe and may be even beyond our conception also, is in fact sum total of what we have in hand. We may call it universe, Mr. X or, may be even GOD. Within our intellect, everything around is governed by explanable or not explanable set of laws and reasoning. Take any thing in the universe, may it be planetary motion, life on our planet and its reproduction, our body physiology, social regulations etc. etc. all are run because of some or the other reasoning. It can also be said that everything around us has set of various types of properties and thus events go on and on. One such property in the living creatures, human in particular is to live, live and live peacefully and be satisfied. Part of this property is due to his mind and this mind is the center of everything good, bad, selfishness, greed, fame, desire, feeling, love, hate and jealousy etc. Every body acts in a way which makes him satisfied and peaceful. All actions good or bad are done to acieve the desirable results. When the desirable results are achieved, the person becomes temporarily peaceful; while unexpected ones make him temporarily sad. Then comes next desire and action & reaction. This way life goes on and on. Well, coming to free will provided to do good or bad, it must be now clear there is no body in outer space who can dictate you to do evil or not evil. If you are not bounded by religious beliefs, social bindings; you would definitely do anything you want to due to part of your property, which in turn would make you peaceful. If somebody harms you, not fearing getting caught, you would kill him without any problem. Unfortunately matter is not finished there!!!! For every action, there comes a reaction back in some or the other form. You sow rice, you would get rice and never anythig else. You killed a person, since he troubled you. If this is known by his near one he won't leave you also. Mind is such an instrument having a peculiar property, whether your actions evil or good ones are known or not known to anybody, but these are deep stored in it. You may lie to all, but you can not decieve your own self. All your own actions and their acceptance by you, are bound to have reaction, which you have to bear sooner or later. Again due to sexual action of parents, child is born. Child grows due to property of system and as per natural law, anything which is born has to die. Obviously child dies after living some years. Before death, logically his many actions have not reacted back. So to bear those balanced reactions, he along with mind's store of balanced actions/reations bound to appear when in some other body frame (Re-incarnation). This is also a natural law. One who is born has to die!!! Similarly who dies has get reborn to share the balance of reactions left unattended due to death in between!!!! Well to conclude, let me say something about natural disasters. Ecology is well known scientific term, which need not be elaborated. Man through his wisdom has reduced mortality rate alarmingly. Nature has to act to keep over all ecological balance which it efficiently succeeds by intoducing natural calamities, in spite of human intervention. I won't say last to last space mishape was for ecology balance. But yes, whatever good or bad is happening around us to an individual or to masses, is definitely as reactions to actions done in the past. It is pure natural law!!!! Please note, I have confirmed scientifically, there can not be separate God anywhere living in different world. But the property of action and reaction do exist, as it is natural. This way world would go on and on!!!!!! I love to have questions from you on above post!! | |
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Dec 25, 2005, 08:03 pm
| #815 (permalink) (top) |
| the missing link  Location: San Francisco USA Posts: 33 | responding to starter post Religiosity / 30-yr evolution of religion + thought / forum member iHu [not a complete rundown] Baptized Lutheran (I'm from a German family) at grandparents' behest, then very rarely attended church beyond age 5 (sometimes christmas or easter). Parents divorced just before this change (age 4): scientific-minded/lifelong mathemetician/rationalist hi-IQ father never goes to church even for 2nd marriage w/ devout Catholic; equally intelligent psychiatrist (+ PhD in philosophy) mother uses church when emotionally convenient or for seasonal symbolisms. With inquisitive modern adolescence, mentors/influences re-align and then comes the abandonment of usless/outmoded rhetoric of church doctrine but a vow to kept Jesus as an alternate source of inspiration beyond my own self; for he is, according to teachings and biography, a uniquley gifted philosopher and prophet, stellar emissary of compassion/love/respect. I honor the teachings and lives of Jesus and 100s of other wise people by not overly idolizing him/them. They are from you, become you (in part), and will most certainly pass through the other side you when you are dead and beyond yourself (even the strictest of objectivists could agree with this). This way, they owe me nothing back, they don't need to be "located" through a cooked-up theatrical miracle in case of emergency only. This way, the help comes from the self, nature or other people, as if they were one in the same as the idolized ones (equal sources of deep energy/motivation/thinking/acting). More is gained by these acts and knowledge through the reaction of giving them back (achieving a sense of balance through the responsibilities); then religion has reformed in a modern mind, and now fits to form. As the initial religious code is decoded, debugged, or replaced, Jesus and some other Biblical characters remain valid but are simultaneously reduced to shining points in a well-lighted pantheon of religious figures, scolars, prophets, geniuses and scientists, theorists and philosophers of all stripes that form a powerful knowledge core within which vestigal "organized religion" is merely a historical reference and meaningful for structural analysis. This is how my sense of organized religion was broken down, usurped and rebuilt through late childhood and into adolescence, etc. As a small child of 5-7, there were definitely times I was scared to death about what would happen to me if I gave up the great organized religious theater I was born into. But exiting, and diluting over us all from faith led me to other forms of faiths, which was a relief to find in such quantity and quality. Dignity beyond religion = highly viable life. There is a void when traveling from faith to faith exploratorily, when you are a child that can be rather daunting/frightening and can be abstracted in its earliest steps. Eventually, with emotional intelligence these things smooth out as deep connections are made and verified through axiomatic means. Organized religion = for some the salve for death; still thought-provoking. universe = God (the stuff of, the supposed essence) = love (sure, a leap of faith is a game) Bible = story book by pious + manipulative males, a parable of conscience, not entirely bereft of good ideas about society though One very basic end result among the layman's framework I have outlined above = a feeling of unique preparedness for what lies ahead in the 21st century and beyond. | || ||| |||. Mongo only...pawn...in game of life .||| ||| || | |
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Dec 25, 2005, 08:35 pm
| #816 (permalink) (top) |
| BANNED Posts: 2,630 | I was blessed Mormon, and raised in a mixed Lutheran/Mormon household. Lutheran won out when my Mother converted when I was four. I wasn't raised in a devout Lutheran house, they went on painful "family" church services ONLY at Christmas and Easter.As soon as I finished being confirmed I left the Lutheran church, because that church wouldn't take a stand against Viet Nam Conflict. I attended Metropolitan Community church for about a decade after I came out of the closet.In college I explored Buddhism, and liked most of it's philosophy, but it just didn't fit me. I left MCC after my lover died of AIDS in the 90's, I wasn't too pleased with the Creator, Christ, or Holy Ghost at the time. Now I've pretty much reverted to a higher power,( which 3 years of Alanon much earlier in my life taught me.) I only accepted that concept (higher power) when I saw people enter a program who were so broken and twisted they seemed beyond help, somehow recovered into some of the most spiritual and amazing friends I've ever known. Last edited by underbear1; Dec 25, 2005 at 08:37 pm. |
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Dec 26, 2005, 12:55 am
| #817 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,721 | Quote:
So God is no other than this very Universe having all the possible properties! :confused:???? | |
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Dec 26, 2005, 01:48 am
| #818 (permalink) (top) | ||
| BANNED Posts: 2,630 | Quote:
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Dec 26, 2005, 02:12 am
| #819 (permalink) (top) | |
| BANNED: Repeated warnings, troll Posts: 1,431 | Quote:
Thank you underbear, beautiful testimony! God bless | |
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Dec 26, 2005, 06:22 am
| #820 (permalink) (top) | |
| Kuldeep Location: Bhopa, M.P, India Posts: 1,721 | Quote:
I am pained to see your intolerance. At the point of my wrting, I never mean to hurt your sentiments. Let me clear, what actually was in my mind: When somebody is desperate, he usually remembers God or higher power or savior. My feelings is that even when we are comfortable, still we should remember that power so that we may not be bestowed with misery or discomfort. I never mean to direct you to follow anything. After all, it is a debate forum. Everybody is free to put his view without dis-honouring others. What I wrote it was YOU SHOULD as general not specifically you!! Still, if my writing hurt you, I am taking my words back. :) | |
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